To think parents should take responsibility if children chase sheep on country walk?

[Firethorn]

Recently went for a country walk (public right of way across farmland) with SIL, my 2 nieces, and another couple and their 3 kids. Crossing a sheep-field, the 5 kids started chasing sheep, trying to 'round them up' in a flock like they'd seen sheepdogs do on TV. I asked SIL if we should stop them, she said no they always do this it's not doing any harm. Other couple agreed and said the kids are having fun, let them play with the sheep. I was a bit concerned as one child was carrying a stick and waving it around, but respected the parents' decision.
Shortly afterwards an irate farmer marched towards us shouting and swearing! She was really aggressive and had a snarling dog (off the lead), dog was circling us but not approaching. For about 5 minutes mins she yelled and swore at the kids for chasing her sheep. All 3 parents then turned on their kids and told them off, lying that they'd been telling them to stop but they'd disobeyed! (They hadn't told them to stop at any point). My niece burst into tears and hid behind me and I lost my temper with farmer for swearing at kids, told her to back off and stop shouting, and to get dog under control. The dad of one of other kids then threatened to kick the dog if it came near his kids, and after some more shouting we decided to go back way we'd come. She shouted abuse after us until we were out of sight!

I'm annoyed with other parents for letting their kids chase sheep then lying about trying to stop them! Also with farmer for being so intimidating and rude. SIL says we should just have apologised and carried on walking. AIBU?

The Archers have had a story about a dog running around Ed Grundy's field of cattle - if a story line about children chasing sheep (in full view of their parents and appearing to be encouraged to do so) then we know that the scriptwriters read these threads.

In my years of living in the country I never 'met' a working dog that wasn't impeccably behaved. A snarling and aggressive manner would not be tolerated in a working dog. Laughable to tell the farmer to get her dog under control, it was almost certainly better behaved that the op's family.

There was a thread on MN last year or perhaps the year before from a woman whose sheep had been worried to the point of losing lambs and sheep dying by a dog chasing them. If the children in the OP are country dwellers then they would know not to chase sheep regardless of their idiotic parents.

I remember that thread FayK - it was heartbreaking, I don't mean from a sentimental POV - though IIRC the OP concerned placed significant importance on animal welfare, but all the stress, worry, extra work and extra expense she had no choice but to suck up. The utter despair at the pointless waste and damage - which could so easily have been avoided.

They are knobends

Omfg op you really don't get it do you!

Ignorance is not an excuse. You all behaved badly, the farmer was well within her rights to have a go at you.

What planet do you all live on? Why on earth would you think it ok for anyone to run around a field of animals, whether it was intentional to scare them or not. As I said earlier its sodding townies like you that give us normal, reasonable townies a bad name.

Your excuses are pathetic, you were wrong and you should admit it rather than digging yourself a deeper hole, but I doubt very much you'll do that.

"Why on earth would you think it ok for anyone to run around a field of animals"

She didn't.

you do know that the farm is well with their rights to actully shot dogs doing the same thing and its also perfectly acceptable for the farmer to have rams in the field that can actully do serous damage to adults never mind to children I bet you would of taken acceptation if a ram had defended its flock by head butting on of the children.

(as case happened near me in north wales where children were constantly chasing sheep to the extent that 12 were killed and so the farm decided to have rams in said fields and the little "darlings" and their parents were actually rammed by the rams and laughable told when they phoned the police that no crime had been commited by the farmer (trying to argue dangerous animals etc) but in fact the parents/ children where in fact breech of the law and if the farmer reported them the police would have to follow through and they would be arristed and would end up with the minium of a stiff fine)

But it might be different laws regaurding farm animals in wales then england

Btw parents with sheep chasing children I would STRONGLY recomend you do not allow your children to chase sheep in dmfries and galloway as the majorty of the sheep flocks actully have Rams in them and espically in spring Rams can be very aggrisive and can cause serous injury if provoked (some rams can be close to 150KG or bigger depending on the breed of sheep and there horns can be lethal and the farmer wont be prosicuted for any injury caused by farm yard animals if in fact you are breaking the law to interact with them

"Next time, try it in a field of angry bulls. Those fuckers love a good chase. Moooooo."

Or even in a field with one calm bull and a herd of cows. A calm bull can stop being calm very quickly if 'his' cows are threatened - as my dad saw one day.

He was following a car towing a caravan, along a road through open common land (near where we lived at the time - the caravan was headed to a caravan park just past our village). They came up behind a herd of cattle being moved along the road. Dad knew he'd have to slow down and dawdle along a safe distance behind, but the caravan owner thought it would be a good idea to try to force his way through the herd, revving his engine and sounding his horn - and scaring the cows.

Unfortunately, they had the bull with them, and as he passed the bull, it took a swipe at the caravan, and its horn opened a gash right along it, like opening a tin can! The caravan owner was Not Impressed, but dad and the farmer both pointed out to him that it was his own stupid fault.

Firethorn - are you going to explain why it is the local residents' responsibility to educate people like your in-laws, who have moved to the area, and it isn't your (intelligent??) relatives' responsibility to educate themselves?

If they moved to the Far East, whose responsibility would it be to ensure they knew the local customs and laws? THEIRS, OF COURSE!

If they moved to Spain, would you expect the locals to learn English for them? I HOPE NOT!

When I was 10, we moved from a big town in the West Midlands, out into the Shropshire countryside. My parents were very clear indeed that it was up to them and us to fit in to our new community, not the other way around. They made sure we knew the rules - don't leave gates to fields open if they were closed when you went through. Stick to the footpaths. Don't mess with the animals or agricultural machinery.

They could have marched into the village with the attitude that they were the civilised town folk, come to give the villagers the benefit of their greater experience and culture - plenty of other town folk were doing that, and were putting the locals backs right up, and finding themselves not accepted at all.

Mum and dad did the opposite - they respected the community they moved into, and its customs etc - and as a result, they integrated seamlessly into the village. When my father died, the local church was packed, and since his death, the village have supported and helped my mum - it's not easy living in a very remote village when you are an OAP and don't drive, but everyone looks out for her - just like they look out for all the village inhabitants.

Bumbly, she did nothing to stop them and had ago at the farmer

i've seen townies doing this kind of shit loads of times. the absolute worst/scariest i ever saw was a group of them taking close up, as in right in their faces, flash photography of a herd of cows!!!!! me and dh legged it out of that field as quickly as possible! i didn't hear any thundering hooves so i assume the stupid fools were lucky that time unfortunately

can't believe op is still trying wriggle out of it and foist blame on to the farmer. the countryside isn't an amusment park with a little map showing where all the main attractions are

Oiy not all townies are as thick as mince

I just can't believe how thick and entitled some people are. To me, even if you were ignorant of farming practices and the material damage that can arise from worrying (pregnant) sheep in particular it's part and parcel of not bothering animals fullstop. I've never let my kids chase, for example, ducks, geese and swans in parks, cats in the street and (though I hate them) run through flocks of pigeons or gulls as you often see kids doing.

FWIW I've often spoken out when I've seen kids - and worse, so called adults - chasing, shouting, teasing, throwing stuff at animals and TBH 90% of the time they slope off shame faced - the other 10% you get called a stupid cow but who cares ? I've seen it going on at petting farms and zoos where no doubt the gormless idiots concerned think their entry fee entitles them to do whatever they want even if animals are traumatised/frightened as a result. I don't understand why the OP didn't say something to her friends and family more forcefully rather than 'suggesting' it wasn't a good idea. They may well have told her to eff off but at least she'd have tried and would have a clear conscience.

So what if the child was crying, don't be so precious, ffs!

I hope she's learnt a valuable lesson

It's wrong of the adults though to lie.

Perhaps you could explain nicely to the children about why we don't chase sheep and why the farmer was angry.

Did the farmer have a gun?

recent posts transported me back to that joyous thread about the op who flicked a child for being cruel to turtles. It was suggested that making a sad face to the hooligan would have been the best way to deal with it. Love that on this one they can be growled at and stampeded. sheep must trump turtles in the protection stakes
I am not making fun of the livestock owners on here who feel so strongly. And I am glad that apart from one weirdo everyone agrees.

OP, dare I stick my head above the parapet here and say I think you are getting a really hard time. You have said from the start that the children's behaviour was wrong (and the adults' was wronger). Lots of posts here treating you like you've said the opposite.

but OP didnt have the courage of her (not very strong) convictions and say that children should not be chasing sheep in the first place. And then she thought the farmer was terribly RUDE to everyone by shouting at them to stop them bothering the animals, and the dog was a nasty RUDE dog too...

so she is effectively trying to justify the children and adults' bad behaviour by passing the blame onto the farmer trying to protect her livestock and her livelihood, and the dog trying to protect the flock and no doubt its owner.

trying to pull the wool over our eyes?!

But I still think farmer should have addressed adults not children, avoided swearing and been a bit more civil. The dad was fuming all way home about her attitude, I don't see how it improves understanding between farmers/walkers if they behave in such intimidating manner. A polite notice on the gate would have been more effective than a verbal attack that left parents resentful and angry.
If field has a right of way through it, isn't it also the farmer's responsibility to keep sheep away from public or put a sign up asking not to approach them?

You and your family really are stupid. Do you want the countryside simply to be a theme park for your family to rampage through?

Utterly unbelievable & completely unreasonable.

As I said before, in an area where there are a lot of newcomers and tourists, signs on gates would be sensible

No what would be sensible is if idiot townies just learnt a bit of respect. Or buggered off.

I don't know why you're all jumping on the OP. She's as pissed off about the disregards to the sheep As we all on. They weren't her kids doing it. It's hardly her fault the mothers/fathers lack pArenting skills and seem to have an eversion to telling their kids right from wrong. Not her job to be the parent.

when I was walking my dog on his lead innocently down our lane, past someone's house and their dog came out and attacked him out of the blue was I reasonable? No I shouted screamed and swore bloody blue murder, due to my shock and outrage. This is a dog, precious to us but not part of my livelihood. I think the farmer was pretty restrained under the circumstances described.

Signs on gates and fences? lovely idea... who wants to pay for them and maintain them and make sure a howling gale doesnt whip them off and dump them in the field where the cow or sheep eats them and ends up with big vets' bills? Coz I am pretty damn sure OP's intelligent, responsible family wouldnt be interested.

It's really really easy: check the countryside code. close gates behind you, keep your dog on a lead if livestock present, do not veer off the footpath. and if you are really sensible, do not enter a field with cows or horses present unless you are the farmer or owner.

Yes to this last, unless you're knowledgeable about how to move in the company of large animals. I'm country-raised, but live in a city, and even i (who've been around cows, sheep and horses all my life) am very careful when out fell-walking. I remember once, walking down an old farm lane (a right of way, however) in the Lake District, bordered by drystone walls each side, and in the middle a big sleeping cow. I probably could have gently walked past it, but given the closed in nature of the lane, and the size of the animal, I decided that discretion was the better part of valour, climbed the drystone wall, walked past the cow, climbed back into the lane a little way out it. Maybe I w a coward, but I also didn't want to disturb a peaceful animal. And when animals are panicked, their behaviour can be unpredictable.

The OP is unreasonable for her repeated statement that there should be signs, as if a working farm is some sort of awful suburb. And for getting angry with the farmer. That was right out of order. Completely.

'intelligent professionals'? Thick as pig shit more like. My son knows not to chase animals and he's barely two years old.

You think the farmer should have been less aggressive and given more thought to explaining things to you. You are completely failing to grasp that the farmer doesn't give a toss about your feelings or education. She cared about her animals being in a life threatening situation and bringing about an immediate stop to that threat.

Bearing in that in mind, I think she was very restrained. My dad would have told his collie to see you off. The dog wouldn't touch you but he'd have you running in the belief that he would and because he's a collie he'd be using his herding skills to make sure you went exactly where he wanted you to go.

My grandad would have just used his shotgun to the same effect.

You all got off very lightly.

my grandpa would have done the same hedgehogs! back in the day, eh?!