To think parents should take responsibility if children chase sheep on country walk?

[Firethorn]

Recently went for a country walk (public right of way across farmland) with SIL, my 2 nieces, and another couple and their 3 kids. Crossing a sheep-field, the 5 kids started chasing sheep, trying to 'round them up' in a flock like they'd seen sheepdogs do on TV. I asked SIL if we should stop them, she said no they always do this it's not doing any harm. Other couple agreed and said the kids are having fun, let them play with the sheep. I was a bit concerned as one child was carrying a stick and waving it around, but respected the parents' decision.
Shortly afterwards an irate farmer marched towards us shouting and swearing! She was really aggressive and had a snarling dog (off the lead), dog was circling us but not approaching. For about 5 minutes mins she yelled and swore at the kids for chasing her sheep. All 3 parents then turned on their kids and told them off, lying that they'd been telling them to stop but they'd disobeyed! (They hadn't told them to stop at any point). My niece burst into tears and hid behind me and I lost my temper with farmer for swearing at kids, told her to back off and stop shouting, and to get dog under control. The dad of one of other kids then threatened to kick the dog if it came near his kids, and after some more shouting we decided to go back way we'd come. She shouted abuse after us until we were out of sight!

I'm annoyed with other parents for letting their kids chase sheep then lying about trying to stop them! Also with farmer for being so intimidating and rude. SIL says we should just have apologised and carried on walking. AIBU?

Here you are OP, imagine this on every stile/gate you walk through:

STICK TO THE FUCKInG PATH!

Just cos there is a footpath does not mean you can use the whole field to practice your sheep herding skills, exercise your dog, have sex, pitch camp, play a game of rounders, or land your hot air balloon (some of last years reasons for being anywhere off the path).

DONT CHASE LIVESTOCK!

Just don't. Spread the word amongst your professional intelligent friends and relatives, you could do your bit for town/countryside relations.

It's nice to hear Village Idiots described as "intelligent and professional". We're moving on as a society.

It's even better that these children saw their parents lie and deflect blame downwards. Just how society should be.

Psst - grovel don't use "Village Idiot".

Mitmoo once did that and look what happened to her!!

There seems to be a lot of posts from stupid people of late. That's right, I said stupid people. Deliberately.

Animal cruelty disguised as children's entertainment and endangering other people's property = animal cruelty in my book. Suspect the farmer is posting on another website about how to identify you to report you to the police, for annoying his sheep and threatening to kick his dog.

I hope the farmer involves the police. That would be the first thing done here.

FFS OP are you always this dense?

IT IS NEVER OK TO CHASE AN ANIMAL. EVER. END OF.

No one should have to have that explained to them! What kind of idiot thinks this is acceptable behaviour?

Those that do should consider their suitability to themselves breed!

I know - trespassed on someone's land (they should have stuck to the path), harassed and threatened the landowner, damaged property and animal cruelty - definitely a matter for the police.

This has to be made up. Surely people so ignorant do not exist in real life?

OP, if the children had been bitten or something by one of the sheep or the dog, would you be claiming compensation, etc.?

Do sheep bite?

Salmotrutta, I was commending the OP for her political correctness!

Not.

OP I find it really hard to believe that a group of grown adults living in the countryside don't know that chasing sheep is wrong. I'm not a country person but I grew up knowing that chasing farm animals was wrong.

You've said a couple of times that you were concerned, and that you did know it was wrong, so why didn't you tell your SIL that? Why didn't you educate her if you knew?

Especially when she said that the children always do it?

No wonder the farmer shouted, if she has a bunch of clueless adults and children roaming about her land chasing her sheep on a regular basis.

Your SIL and her friends are cowards and liars, prepared to let children take the blame for something they should have stopped them from doing.

And they are idiots for roaming about the countryside completely clueless to the rules they ought to be abiding by.

Just for future reference though, livestock are not toys, and they don't want children to come along and "play" with them. So your SIL really needs to get her "let them play with the sheep" ideas out of her head.

The sheep might be used to being herded, but they're not used to a bunch of clueless people chasing at them, pretending to be dogs (so barking?) and waving sticks at them. They are used to a farmer who knows what she's doing and a trained dog who won't hurt them.

The dog was under control, except it seems to have gotten a bit more growly and snarly as the thread has gone on.

It did not approach or threaten the children in your opening post, but the children were threatening the sheep.

So the father doesn't need to worry about kicking it, although he should perhaps be grateful that the farmer didn't kick his children for attacking her animals, ignorant of the fact or not.

The children heard some bad language and saw a dog. They also heard their own parents lie to the farmer and blame them for everything to get themselves out of trouble.

I know which I think is the most damaging to a child, and it's not the woman who was angry in the defence of her vulnerable and valuable livestock, or her well trained working dog.

SukieTuesday Do sheep bite?

Perhaps it might be better if we just pretended they bite. Might save a lot of bother...

I've certainly heard of sheep charging and knocking people down, and people suffering a nasty kick from a sheep. Perhaps we should add child endangerment to the list.

OP - the farmer was shouting at you all in exasperation that no-one had educated your children in common sense or basic avoidance of being cruel to animals. That's supposed to be the parents' job. You should feel really ashamed.

You are exactly the kind of people I don't want anywhere near my land. The one and only right of way through my land is fenced to death to prevent out of control children/dogs getting near my animals.

The fact that the people you were with thought their children's actions perfectly fine shows just how little regard they have for the countryside....

I know I'm just repeating what has been said but the behaviour by your friends, relatives was shockingly bad. YABU about the farmer. Your SIL says the children 'always do this'! Hopefully now you've all learnt a lesson. Never chase sheep and do everything you can to keep completely out of their way/ keep pet dogs out of their way in spring.
I don't think adults should swear in front of the children, but would be hard for farmer to keep cool/calm under such circumstances.
Also normally wouldn't be on the side of a snarling dog but am sympathetic to this one as the dog will be highly trained and under farmers control.

But you are right about the parents changing their tune in front of farmer. That's unfair to the dcs.

I do not come from the country but even i know you don't chase or 'herd' animals! Mind you i was bought up to respect animals!
You can dress it up anyway you want, the animals were frightened!
Shame on the kids and the parents.
Shame on you for even thinking the farmer was anyway unreasonable for protecting her sheep!!
Her dog wasnt out of control it eas growling because the kids were scaring the sheep!
You shouldn't have even been there!
Do you seriously need a sign to tell you to keep to the path and not to touch the animals?
If the children had been hurt i suppose it would have been the farmers fault for not putting a sign up....

Shame on you and your dim witted mates for thinking that chasing animals round a field was 'fun.' I know next to nothing about the countryside and have enough gumption to realise that chasing a herd animal is cruel and dangerous. They weren't running away because they were playing with the children, they ran away because they were frightened.

Shame on them too for blaming the children for the incident at least they could have taken the flak for their utter stupidity and irresponsibility.

I don't blame the farmer for swearing at you. She showed remarkable restraint in not setting the dogs on the adults after they had the brass neck to argue the toss after being pulled up for allowing their children to terrorise animals and endanger her livelihood. A bite to the arse might have served as a reminder not to act in such a cretinous way in future.

So Op is "as dense as custard" and "Oh dear, OP, you are displaying a stunning lack of basic understanding."

I really don't think so, I think she knows exactly what she is doing. Just keeps popping back every now and then to quietly enflame.

"And just to re-cap"

Still digging, Op.

(think I'll go get a ladder ... poor Op could be in that hole all night)

Wow just wow .... am gobsmacked by the utter ignorance.

Livestock isn't put there as ..... I dunno ..... some sort of fucking amusement for anyone who happens to walk past.

I can't believe that 'naivety' is being put forward as a defence. Or, oh dear, they haven't always lived in the country. Diddums.

Are you really expecting us to believe that 30-40 somethings who are apparently intelligent and professional have got to the age they are yet a) have no idea that sheep worrying is wrong and b) have utterly no idea why sheep (or presumably any other farm animal) would be in a field at all. Do they honestly think they're the farmer's pets ...... can they not grasp that they're the farmer's livelihood (meat and/or wool) ?

And whilst they might not have comprehended that it's spring and all that (but no, they're not thick apparently) - which tends to mean lambs - doh ...... what they condoned and encouraged would be absolutely 100% wrong at any time of the year regardless of whether ewes were pregnant or not. It's just that at this time it's potentially even more damaging.

At another time, a ram could have been in the field ..... would have liked to see how much fun they thought it was if he took against the silly brats and their oh so entitled parents.

'Oh look kiddiwinkles, there's Shaun the Sheep, go and say hello .... I'm sure he'd love to play chase with you' - Jeez.

Next time, try it in a field of angry bulls. Those fuckers love a good chase. Moooooo.

Ok. The OP has come back on and explained again that she didn't think it was right that the children were chasing the sheep in the first place. She thought her SIL/friends were wrong for letting their children do this. I think she 'gets it' and I think it's pointless to ask if she thinks it's ok to chase x,y,z animal when she's already said she didn't think it was ok to chase sheep!

She originally thought that the farmer over reacted but now realises why she did.

Tbh, I don think signs are a terrible idea. No, they shouldn't be needed but if there's a public right of way and clearly not everyone has the common sense not to allow their children to chase sheep then it's an opportunity to educate people. I am not saying that the farmer is in any way wrong for not having signs by the way - just to be clear!

Disgusting behaviour here op. No respect for animals or the countryside.

Did your sil and friends even consider contacting the farmer and offering to pay if there has been any loss? No, thought not because a)it would probably cost them hundreds and b) they're selfish stupid people

If the farmer frightened the witless children to tears then maybe theyll have learnt their lesson. The lesson they should have learnt from the useless adults around them.

I'm just pointing out there is a big difference between deliberately inflicting terror on animals and causing distress through ignorance.

Actually, to the sheep or the farmer, no there isn't. It still has the same effect whether you intend to behave like idiots or just behave like idiots because you or your parents don't know any better. The sheep don't care whether you have "Mens rea", (look it up if you don't know what it means). Ignorance is not a defence.

And why do people think that because there is a footpath crossing the field, they can run around the whole thing? If you want a field to run in, go and buy your own! Otherwise keep to the path. It may look like luscious green grass to you that the farmer is growing for your kids to run in, but it's our silage crop to feed the cows next winter.

Oh well, at least the kids and parents have learnt a big lesson and hopefully they will be less stupid/selfish next time they walk in the countryside.