to be amazed at how many people are still having 4 or more children?

[JackShit]

Yikes! I'm going to get a new one ripped here, but this has been bugging me of late.

Our planet isn't in a particularly marvelous state. Overpopulation is a very real problem. We are responsible for the legacy we leave our children and surely part of loving them is to be concerned for their future quality of life on this planet.

I know there are a lot of people with larger families on MN and I need to understand why, in full knowledge of the facts, people continue to have so many children? Just read a thread on facebook where a woman was proudly stating she has 11! 11 ffs!

I don't go for the argument about some having only one or two so it cancels out and I also don't believe in replacing our ageing population problem with an even bigger one.

So what am I missing here? Do people just not really give a shit? Does biology take over?

I have 1 btw.

This issue makes me so angry. The only people I know having 4+ kids are unemployed or a low paid workers on tax credits. My sister has 5 kids and is trying for more. Her husband earns £20k and she is a SAHM. They have just moved into a 5 bed detached house, like something a lottery winner would own. Mostly paid for by housing benefit/tax credits. They have 2 holidays a year, we can barely afford a weekend away! She gets her hair and nails done regularly too, kids kitted out in the latest gear.

We have one child by choice as I feel that to provide a good life for her eg holidays, driving lessons, paying for house deposit, thats all we can afford. We don't claim any benefits, only child benefit. I would have loved another child. I told my husband we are complete mugs for saving for a pension, buying our little terrace and us both working. He should have stayed in a 15K low paid job we should have had lots of kids and claimed every penny. If I had my time again thats what I would do.

Tax credits should be limited to 2 children and see the birth rate drop.

how do you know that we aren't doing that too?

I don't. I hope you are.

Dueling 2 children is replacing theoretically though, not increasing the population, so they have a point.

Replacement Level - HA HA HA HA

Maybe the OP needs to be more extreme in her thinking and restrict couples to 0 or 1 dc if replacement theory is bollocks then.

there is a serious and meaningful conversation to be had about global over population. Pointing a finger at an infinitesimally small number of people who have four children or more in an insignificant country (size wise) like the UK isn't it.

IMO

But - they KNOW they do not need to be replaced because there are all these other families having 4+ children.

It's not fair to still plow on with having 'replacement level' children when you actually already know that you have been replaced and you are really concerned about it.

And someone up there called some of the comments uneducated and ignorant!

Surely it's as bad to say 'well F you and the population problem, I am STILL going to have 2 because I want to replace myself with my own genes even though I know I am contributing to an already over-full planet by doing so'

replacement theory is bollocks then

well yes I agree. Certainly if what you're considering is the UK.

The earth won't care if our tiny island is totally uninhabited. Frankly wither will the rest of the world population - it would make holidays here much more pleasant too.

And why 2? Why not just 1? Is it because '2' still allows so many on here still to have their perfect ideal family?

Only people who adopt should be allowed to claim benefits.

Thats me and thee so far then MrsDV - looking forward to my increase in child benefit.

jenny1969x somewhat misses the point

Seeing as average number of children per couple is 1.8 we have some way to go in order to be replacing ourselves in the UK. On that basis I think we all need to get shagging and make sure we can replace every single adult more precisely.
I mean with replacement theory and all some people seem to be not doing their fair share of replacing us.

I have 4, I have to say that I never gave the planet a thought when deciding to have them! I did consider whether or not our house was big enough and if we could afford them . I like to think that between the 4 of them, I will be looked after in old age and that if anything happens to me and dh, that they all have each other, but that's not why I had them . I just always wanted a large family.

myredcardigan so they can judge everyone else of course! Apart from those close to them who the rules don't seem to apply to

Look, we should all take responsibility for our actions. I'm far from perfect, and I'll admit to my failings. I try to think about the wider consequences of my actions, but sometimes I make selfish decisions. But why do some of you think that you shouldn't have to bother thinking of the consequences at all?
And why are you more concerned with the OP's personal circumstances than the genuine issue she raises? If she had no children would that mean she was allowed to ask the question?

BTW for the avoidance of doubt - I am VERY pro everyone making small steps to make the world a better place. I'm just not so sure that taking really quite small steps in the right direction allows you to be so smug about pointing at others who haven't made similar decisions.

So you DO claim benefits.

Yes, but if they took my CB away tomorrow I could cope. Doubt the many families who have 4+ kids claiming hundreds in tax credits every week could.

If you have to claim more from the government than you earn to feed your family, you are irresponsible.

Many people take more out of the govt pot to raise their children than what they put into the pot. Health care, education, other services all add up to a huge sum. Whilst not everyone relies on benefits to feed their children many families do rely on a wider source of govt support in order to raise their families. If your child attends state school then they are costing more in education than the family who are home schooling are claiming in child benefit.

"Yes, but if they took my CB away tomorrow I could cope" then you don't really need it do you?

I don't really need mine but I take it because I am allowed to have it. That's pretty selfish.

"If you have to claim more from the government than you earn to feed your family, you are irresponsible."

benefits are there to help those in need.

I wish people would stop reading the OP as a personal attack and actually think about it. The worlds increasing population is a massive problem. The facts and figures are there. The WHO are suitably worried about it.

Someone show me on example of people turning a blind eye to something in history, which has actually ended up beneficial for humanity. I despair at how narcissistic humans are, we are not infallible. We can't make the world bigger. We are not the ones in control of planet earth. It's not going to increase in size.

Jenny, I can and do go without any benefits inc child benefit. I have 4 kids and I pay for school too so not as much of a drain on resources as you're suggesting.
And therein lies the problem; that MN at the moment is full of people who cannot comprehend a world outside their own little bubble. One where people need benefits to help them get back in their feet or just to exist. Likewise a world where parents may choose to have 3+ kids due to losing a child or having zero extended family so longing to create a family or simply because that's what makes them happy, rounded individuals.
Nearly 11 yrs on here and I'm finally starting to sigh.

Well fyi jenny1969 I have 4 and we get NO benefits including CB. We live a 4 bed house that we are paying for, we are giving dcs best life we can. Aren't most parents?