to be amazed at how many people are still having 4 or more children?

[JackShit]

Yikes! I'm going to get a new one ripped here, but this has been bugging me of late.

Our planet isn't in a particularly marvelous state. Overpopulation is a very real problem. We are responsible for the legacy we leave our children and surely part of loving them is to be concerned for their future quality of life on this planet.

I know there are a lot of people with larger families on MN and I need to understand why, in full knowledge of the facts, people continue to have so many children? Just read a thread on facebook where a woman was proudly stating she has 11! 11 ffs!

I don't go for the argument about some having only one or two so it cancels out and I also don't believe in replacing our ageing population problem with an even bigger one.

So what am I missing here? Do people just not really give a shit? Does biology take over?

I have 1 btw.

No Carrie, that wasn't what I was implying at all. Sorry if I wasn't in depth enough for you but I was merely remarking on Ireland's continued population rise.

Added to which I hop to work (the living room) [smug]

No, I don't give a shit, not one bit, and I guess biology did take over as I have three children, but quite frankly that has bugger all to do with you does it.....

" so you think that people who worry about the world's ever growing population shouldn't have babies, so that those who don't care can have as many as they want? I'm not saying there should be a limit on the number of children people have but I do think people should realise that their decisions have future impacts."

I am saying that every person has to be responsible for their own decision and it's not the responsibility of parents with only one to badger parents with 4 about the choices they have made regarding family size. I think if you are that passionate about over-population then start in your own back yard rather than peering over the fence and blaming other people.

Kew - Op has already said she didn't expect to be able to have children at all due to medical issues, so that isn't a very fair stick to beat her with.

I think you are making a perfectly reasonable (and important) point. We only have 2, but if I'm honest I'd rather love another. Not having another because I'm getting too long in the tooth and couldn't afford it - not because I am being virtuous and responsible in terms of the planet. BUT I think it is very true that our planet has limited resources and we can't keep depleting them without things going hugely wrong at some point. Population growth is one issue, but I suppose not the only one. Improving the way we use/reuse resources is also key. Anyway, in my opinion YANBU to raise the topic and I think it's a shame that there have been so many chippy, defensive posts on the thread.

It's the same with this issue as with so many others - 'i want to do it so I will, and I'm not going to consider the consequences'. Same reason people drive their dc to school when they could easily walk, eat meat with every meal, don't bother to recycle, use disposable stuff. As a society we feel we are entitled to do as we please. It's quite scary really.

People who are so worried about the planet that they feel a right to bitch about the number if children in some families, would do better to actively protest about how big business is allowed by governments across the planet to poison the world in the pursuit of profit.

Big families are a drop in the ocean of the world's problems.

It was a discussion on Mumsnet, the OP isn't exactly campaigning to have a legal limit for the number of children people have.

Have at it, if people want four then have four. It may not have an impact this generation but the increasing population size will affect future generations. It's the whole 'I'll do what I want because it won't affect me' attitude that has caused major problems throughout history. You'd hope people might learn.

I am currently pregnant with number 3. We were planning on this being our last but I might consider having a fourth if it will cause enough outrage amongst busy bodies like the OP who think their choices make them holier than thou. Or maybe I could follow in my parents footsteps and have significantly more than 4

shanti great minds!

Why not Peke

Whatever her expectations - she did have a birth child. If she is so concerned about over population then what does it matter whether she had an expectation of having a birth child or not?

Whether you have 1, 3 or 5 is just a matter of how badly you damage the environment. I think if you are on the spectrum of being part of the problem then you don't get to point a finger at others that in your view are a bigger problem without examining your own contribution first.

Anyone who lives a first world lifestyle with children is frankly not in a strong position to be judging others.

I think we should be far more concerned with women having babies in developing countries where there is poor access to contraception, high levels of disease and high levels of death during childbirth than we should about the small number of people in the UK who decide to have 4 or more children and almost manage to increase the average children per family figure over the current 1.8

Also wondering who will cover the cost of us all in our old age if everyone stops having more than 1 or 2 babies. We will end up with a very imbalanced aged population.

There would be a bit of a difference to the world population if everyone had only one child - as the OP has - as opposed to four or more though kewcumber. And so on generation after generation.

I've had 5. The eldest died and I was lucky enough to have another 4. I'd have another hundred if I was able to. Criticise all you like.

I have 4! We wanted 3 but ended up with an extra one.

I wonder how my 4 using resources globally compares to someone using national financial resources to pay for their 2 or even 1? We receive no benefits inc child benefit. Do you? National financial resources should also be a consideration when it comes to having children, should it not? And if not then why think globally if not willing to think nationally?

Kew that's a really good point, that this argument can also be applied to to someone with one child, by someone who has no children. It's all just a matter of degrees and is actually useless in solving any problems. It's just about pointing fingers of blame from various perspectives.

I certainly won't be limiting my family size because some mumsnetters find it selfish.
My extended family are pretty infertile and so car my son is my gps only grandchild. I feel I owe them a few more as everyone wants to leave descendents.
An earlier point was raised about Muslims having more children.
This is genuinely true. Both me and my husband feel that the white European population will probably die out eventually because of a general lack of interest in having children and concern for the environment.
Muslims will always have children ( as well as some other religious groups) as it is seen as a duty.

Agree with OP. Its obviously selfish to have more than 2 - justify it anyhow you want but its true (eyes traffic jam outside house). Too many people people!

OP I don't think that there's necessarily something wrong with people having lots of children per se. It's the types of people having lots of children that is concerning. In an ideal world the largest families would be the most educated, intelligent, productive and socially engaged. Thereby raising well-rounded children who themselves go on to be great contributors to society. If these kinds of families had 4 or more children society would improve. Everyone would benefit.

Yet sadly the reverse is often true particularly as more educated women delay motherhood until their 30s or later. The largest families are usually those least able to afford them and least equipped to raise them productively. And the more children they have the more their, already limited, resources of child-rearing are stretched thin.

Children are now seen as a personal lifestyle choice. But personally I believe everyone needs to take a long hard look at themselves and be honest about what they can bring to the table as parents. Society and civilisation is at stake.

I agree op.

Between us, me and DH have ... a few. I know its not good for the planet. Why pretend that it is?