to be amazed at how many people are still having 4 or more children?

[JackShit]

Yikes! I'm going to get a new one ripped here, but this has been bugging me of late.

Our planet isn't in a particularly marvelous state. Overpopulation is a very real problem. We are responsible for the legacy we leave our children and surely part of loving them is to be concerned for their future quality of life on this planet.

I know there are a lot of people with larger families on MN and I need to understand why, in full knowledge of the facts, people continue to have so many children? Just read a thread on facebook where a woman was proudly stating she has 11! 11 ffs!

I don't go for the argument about some having only one or two so it cancels out and I also don't believe in replacing our ageing population problem with an even bigger one.

So what am I missing here? Do people just not really give a shit? Does biology take over?

I have 1 btw.

I currently have two and realistically I think three is our limit. Yes, I'm aware that 2.1 is the rate required for sustaining a population, and the average in the UK is 1.8, and that the typical British person's consumption of resources would require 3 planet Earths to sustain if all 7 billion people on the planet had our lifestyle.

In reality the biggest considerations are my hips and general well being in pregnancy, and our ability to resource a level of lifestyle.

In the UK, the number of large families is balanced by the majority having 2, 1 or none. The greater proportion of population growth is through migration, and housing pressure through smaller family units with greater numbers of solo dwellers than previous generations.

jackshit

Saying "you smell" is bad, possibly abusive
Saying "having more children makes the world smell and that's selfish" is also bad, possibly abusive

Making a comment about one's own life as lemonade has done is not abusive but just a statement. That it hurts reflects your own issues about the whole thing.

I apologise for my "does she care?" statement unreservedly.

However if you feel so upset when someone says that they didn't like being a singletonas lemonade did then I'd advise speaking to someone about it. You have unresolved issues that a rant about the environment on mumsnet is not going to resolve.

I'm not sure why you initially felt posts towards you were hurtful, Jack. Admittedly, things began to get a little heated (although I saw more hurt from you than abuse from others), but before that the only thing people said to you was that they felt having more than one was better than having one. You obviously feel differently. Meow is it that everyone is attacking you yet you have attacked no one by doing the exact same thing?

'with all the respect I can muster
try that shit on a bonafide dickhead' is a smidge unnecessary don't you think?

No. She's saying "I don't believe you." Hardly an attack.

Has anyone linked to Hans Rosling yet? This is a population level issue not an individual one. On the whole, societies move to fewer children per household over time. People who have 4, 7, 8, 12 whatever are unusual in most economically developed countries, and their personal preference can be absorbed by the country as a whole where plenty of people have 1, 2 or no children.

www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_shows_the_best_stats_you_ve_ever_seen

That's because it's very different and you know it. The stigma around one child families is huge. Being told my girl will be lonely and given examples of how shit it is is unkind end of.

Having a debate about why people choose to have large families given environmental concerns is not the same thing.

www.developmenteducation.ie/de-in-action/ecological-footprinting/do-we-all.html
Developed vs developing world footprint. Not just about big families as others have said.

OP please don't let the cruel shit some posters have written here upset you.

jackshit you are so wrong. there is stigma over large families too and the environmental issue is one of the sticks that we are beaten with.

You have joined the beaters in an attempt to escape your own personal beating

Tbh I really wasn't aware of that, probably due to being in my own bubble of only child guilt.

FYI I'm an only child and it is indescribably shit

I'm an only child, and have never had an issue with it.

Better to be an only child than have a twat for a sibling.

in my own bubble of only child guilt

unless that was ironic I think we have had a breakthrough people

Jack I have only one myself. Not for environmental reasons, purely selfish ones and I do hope to have more soon, but I definitely don't think I've experienced more stigma over the last 6 years than large families. Look at some of the posts on here about large families - were they attacks too?

Bloody hell! You've been bitches, but you've also clarified so much. I'll go away from this with a far less narrow view.

But the thread has been full of posts stating that kids in families of 3+ simply don't get enough attention or miss out on their childhood because they care (for the odd minute) for their younger siblings.

If you're genuinely upset by being limited to 1 due to your health then I sympathise. And if you'd started the thread seriously asking why people make the family choices they do instead of launching in with 'Do they not really give a shit?' Then maybe the responses you received would have been slightly more measured.

Yep, regret that.

Dixie

WOW! THIS THREAD! Perhaps a bit more support for each other would be better? I think women shoulder more (imagined) guilt for all these issues being thrashed out here - one child issues/large family/environmental damage - it's all just massive sticks to beat ourselves with! We're all just individuals, with not very much power individually. Let's ease up on ourselves people....

This thread contains a lot more negative comments about larger families than it does about one child families, and you started that OP.
If it hurts you that people are negative about your family, can't you understand that it hurts others too?
Your OP was rude and judgemental to lots of people. If you expect apologies, you might want to start with one yourself.

Ok!
I think I should go to bed now because having 4 means I have a statistically higher chance of being woken by 1 in the night.