to be amazed at how many people are still having 4 or more children?

[JackShit]

Yikes! I'm going to get a new one ripped here, but this has been bugging me of late.

Our planet isn't in a particularly marvelous state. Overpopulation is a very real problem. We are responsible for the legacy we leave our children and surely part of loving them is to be concerned for their future quality of life on this planet.

I know there are a lot of people with larger families on MN and I need to understand why, in full knowledge of the facts, people continue to have so many children? Just read a thread on facebook where a woman was proudly stating she has 11! 11 ffs!

I don't go for the argument about some having only one or two so it cancels out and I also don't believe in replacing our ageing population problem with an even bigger one.

So what am I missing here? Do people just not really give a shit? Does biology take over?

I have 1 btw.

Why did you have any children at all if you're so concerned about the planet? Because you wanted one? Same for me except I wanted four.

I am expecting DC6.

It's too simplistic to say over population is spoiling the planet, there are many factors, although I agree this is one of them.

We pay for our children and care for them and hope to raise them to have good careers, contributing to the planet by paying taxes, looking after the ageing population etc

Family planning is a very personal choice and people have many reasons as to why they do or don't have big or small families.

I have 5 children, and i quite enjoy having a large family.
If you are so greatly concerned about the population, why did you choose to have any children at all??

If we are going to get started on this subject, can you explain to me why you choose to give a child a life of later selfishness or even lonelyness? Choosing to have an only child, is selfish in my eyes, of course if it is an actual choice rather than circumstance.

Well, I'm with you OP, though we appear to be in a minority.

I would love a large family and felt guilty when we took the plunge and went for DC3.
Each of these 3 DC are now teens and above each has a computer, mobile phone etc. If we had 6, that would have been even more of these gadgets.

At some point the chances are they will all have their own cars - that's 2 extra cars on the road than if we had stopped at 1DC. So yes. I do sometimes feel guilty - it was selfish to have 3, but no way could I have justified even more.

Most this is a waste of time (including worrying about the Duggars). The important thing is that we need to learn in the west to make our prosperity & security something sustainable, that doesn't use up excess resources, while creating more security and prosperity in the developing world.

I'm still amazed that there are so many nosey bloody busy bodies worrying so much over what others are doing! If its not directly physically harming anyone put your energies elsewhere. You only live once and i'm not about to live to please others.

Oh and the planet gets far more damage from planes, petrol fumes etc. my family do neither. Are you going to give up your holidays abroad and cars? Thought not. Different strokes for different folks. I can't seem to get myself into a lather over other peoples way of life.

And for the record, my bunch of 5 ride scooters and we don't own a car.
Your carbon emmissions alone, probably make up more than enough of the damage to the ozone.

Cat theif why would four dc equal twenty sets of uniform?

I think Ireland's birth rate decreased because of easy access to contraception.
When contraception is available to all women around the world .. Families of 7 plus will decrease . but in my dh country where contraception is available families of 3 or 4 are the norm compared with 1 or 2 in European families.
It might change but they have a different mentality over there where children are worth more than money. My sil lives in a 1 bed house with 3 kids which is normal.
Tbf they consume less combined than probably 1 UK kid.

I have four, we chose four, because we can afford and care for four. It is hard to hear people say that bigger families can't possibly spend enough time with their children. I am a stay at home Mum, I help in school, referee football, help coach swim lessons. We eat dinner at the table together every single night. I read to my two smallest every night. I am there when they wake up and when they go to sleep and all the time in between. They love each other too! Someone once told me that love for children is like money from a bank, you dont draw from the same account ,you have a separate account for each child with an unlimited amount.

I am one of 3 dh one of 4 between those 7siblings there are 9 grand children. 4 aremine and dh's. I dont feel guilty about having four. I have never understood what makes someone just want one child. However ,I don't need to understand it I just accept it is that way. Like said above the average uk family has 1.8 hardly a great amount

There's a load of ignorant clap trap being talked on here under the guise of facts
I have 8
Self employed
Not one of my kids is 'feral'
Nor do the older ones bring up the bairns
We don't fly
Are vegetarian
Grow our own and are generally fairly pleasant people. Don't consume loads of electrical goods - no tv etc. Our house is big but we've got enough wood in our garden for five years if that helps those balancing on the moral high ground
Both our parents were divorced - therefore had two of everything where my partner and I have one
That's a bit less global footprint for a start

I haven't read all the posts. To be brutally honest, yes I do think it's a shame, and we do try to be as environmentally friendly as a family as we can, but the distant future in generations and generations to come just doesn't concern me as much as maybe it should. I would rather live my life how I want and have as many children as I like than let something that isn't going to affect me out my children or my grandchildren. That may very well be selfish but thats how I feel and no matter how real a threat, it's not going to be a deciding factor in how many children I have.

Just for the record I have three and am TTC number 4

Haven't read everything so sorry if I'm repeating what has already been said but YABU.

The UK fertility rate is below replacement. The world fertility rate is 2.5, way down from 4.7 in 1970 and with the rate dropping as countries get richer.

A small number of large families will help ensure the next generation have a slightly lighter burden in caring for us as we age.

How many people genuinely only have one child because they're concerned about global overpopulation? Seriously I doubt it's many, because if they were that concerned that the planet going down the pan, they wouldn't have any.
So if people who have one or two children don't consider overpopulation when they have kids, why would people who have more? Or are we suggesting that overpopulation just suddenly pops into people's heads when they discuss baby number 3 and then the conscientious ones drop the idea?!!

I agree op, I think it's selfish to have more than two.

I have three btw and do feel guilty about it and that I am taking more than my fair share. I badly wanted another child and these feelings just overrode my concerns about the planet.

Both our parents were divorced - therefore had two of everything where my partner and I have one

That is a very good point. How many separated families do we have and how much more energy do they consume and how much more environmental damage do they do when compared to a singular household unit.
I have nothing against people separating and often it is for the best but if we are going to talk about the environmental impact that families have then we should be looking at different lifestyle factors and living arrangements rather than just the number of children somebody has.
I drive a fuel efficient car which I purposefully chose because I have to drive. I haven't travelled by air for 10 years. I recycle as much as I can. I use a water butt. I try not to use more household energy than we need including only cooking one meal option so the cooker isn't on for longer than needed.
If I didn't have children I don't think I would be using much less energy.

I am pregnant with my fourth. I think the question of why one has multiple children is similar to the question of why we reproduce at all. And to that question, perhaps there isn't a great answer. It's a bit of biology, a bit of rational thinking, a bit of magic&miracle. I strongly felt like our family wasn't yet complete.... That there was someone else that we were supposed to meet, supposed to
parent.

We do not ignore environmental concerns. We try to be responsible in the way we live and how we raise our kids. Cloth nappies, yes. I realise we make an impact on the planet. My sincere hope and prayer, and one that is present in our household, is that my children make a positive impact on this world.

Btw, a house full of kids is crazy, but it is super fun.

In developed countries the problem is one of too low a birth rate.

We are hurtling towards a dependency ratio which will collapse our economies. When the outcome of China's one child policy comes to fruition in 50-80 years the global economy will collapse.

We are having 3, may have another. We live 'green' lives so I'm not going to feel guilty when parents of 1 DC drive around in range rovers and go on planes 3 times a year.

I see there are more frankly fucking vile comments about me being selfish having one child and comments about loneliness etc.

I am medically unable to have any more and as I said earlier she was a huge surprise after being led to believe for many years I would never be able to have children.

Back off.

Am I to understand you also travel by public transport, never take the plane or use a plastic bag, eat local seasonal produce etc? Where does one decide where everyone's responsibility lies?

Several private and complex reasons for having 4. But one was definitely because ds2 had long-term problems at birth and so will always have SNs - so having #3 was also so ds1 would not be alone 'responsible' for ds2 when we are dead and gone. Not that I expect then to care for him as such, just keep an eye, care about him rather than for him. ds4 has a different and unexpected disability and needs extra support too. Oops! Shame DH doesn't have crystal balls or we could have pre-empted all this by having a good old look beforehand.

Like most I do what I can.

I don't own a car.
Flown once in my life.
Lifelong vegetarian.
Cloth Nappies.
Mooncup user.

I haven't read the whole thread, but it seems you JackShit, Vicarscat and I are very much in a minority, sadly. People don't seem to connect the fact that the planet is in dire straits with their reproductive choices, but they are very much connected. In fact, if we continue consuming at current levels, those same children, selfishly put on this planet, will face a terrible future. We are losing species rapidly because more and more mouths to feed mean forests are cut down - so those same children will grow up to face a future with far too many people, but no forests, no wild animals... Already in the UK 70% of the entire landmass is used for agriculture, and still we have to import food (partly because we overeat and throw away so much). I suspect soon the climate change will force even European governments to impose Chinese- style quotas at 1 child per person (2 per couple), so at replacement level. It is no coincidence that David Attenborough has often spoken about his concern about overpopulation - he's seen up close what it's done to the planet. I have made a conscious decision to have only one child, and I find the hostility towards any discussion re. the consequences of having more than 2, at most 3 children, quite baffling. It is not just the parents that decision affects - it is all of us.