To get really pissed off that a lot of people seem to think it's acceptable to be racist towards Chinese people?

[xiaozhu]

'They all look the same'

'Sum ting wong?'

'I'll have a number 28 please'

'Oh but they eat dogs and cats and small children, and are therefore scum'

Just a few of the comments I've seen on 'news' articles published by a certain 'newspaper'. I mean, I know Daily Mail readers are not known for their intelligence and tolerance, but AIBU to think that similar comments about other races would not be tolerated, or would at least be regarded as much more serious? Not just referring to the DM morons, it seems to be 'OK' to make ignorant sweeping statements about the Chinese in supposedly more educated circles, too.

The same probably applies to other east Asian races too, but I notice it more with the Chinese.

Well 'chinky' may have connotations and I don't personally use it, but I think it's become colloquial language now, my friends dad has become a mini sensation on YouTube because he had one two many and decided to stand on the bar and orchestrate Man U chants in a pub in Salford making sure he included his favourite chant on je sung park, he is Korean business man living in balling ton Cheshire with a private box at Old Trafford.

Racism is wrong in any form, but some comments are jokes (not the ones in the OP) and we also have the ability of self deprecation and to laugh at stereotypes.

Aliis, could you link your thread about E Asians being underrepresented on TV?

I can't see how chinky is anymore a colloquialism than paki.

Using a racist term as a "joke" does not make it a colloquialism. It makes it a racist joke.

slightly

It's here. Nobody replied though so it's just my op.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2310396-Am-I-wrong-in-thinking

Well for a start paki isn't used to define a food group whereas chinky (however distasteful) is.

Calling someone of Chinese decent a chinky is racist, saying your going out for a chinky isn't necessarily racist, now there is definitely correlation between the two, but I have enough friends/associates of Chinese/Japanese/Korean decent that I have heard the word used in a non derogatory manner and jokes made in a self deprecating way.

Paki is used as a type of shop. I don't see what that's got to do with anything. Chinky is racist, it's used in a racist manner, it has racist roots. You could argue that Chinky is more offensive because at least 'Paki' is just a shortening of Pakistani rather than actually rude in itself.

I'm not even going to go into the power dynamic behind an oppressed group using 'humour' in a 'self deprecating way'.

The power dynamic of oppression I would agree with if it wasn't my e Asian friends making the comments while I was in business meetings in Manchester/london/Shanghai and Tokyo.

Referring to a shop as the local 'paki shop' is considered racist all day long.

FFS, both chinky and paki are horribly racist, whether you're talking about people, shops or takeaways! People just need to stop using these terms!

Chinky is racist all day long, but carry on defending it if you must.

I don't see how you having East Asian friends has anything to do with it.

The most racist people are the people who say I have Asians, black, gay friends. They always think it's a badge of honour and they have a pass to say what they want. I always laugh at people who say it because I know they have been caught out.

Chinky is racist if used to a person directly, and yes it has horrible racist connotations. However I have personal experience of it being used around the world to describe a food group in a non racist way and nothing more than a kind of slang descriptive word. This saying wasn't used by some right wing skin head but by Chinese/Koreans and Japanese on ver formal multi national meetings. We have even had Koreans making 'self deprecation' jokes around eating dogs, I have grown up with racism being born in the Midlands. Pardon the pun but it's not as black and white as you want to make it out to be.

Whatthe

Apologies I had to pop out and the conversation has moved on a bit!

I think others have clarified for me but re the 'nip' thing, it is a Japanese reference as some have pointed out but I meant that it gets used in the same way as the slur for Pakistani is used on Indians.

Re the 'fancying a bit of Chinese' I've heard this a fair bit when a chinese woman walks by and a bunch of guys check her out. I've also heard this from a group of women too.

YANBU. My two young DC are mixed race (DH is British of Chinese origin) and attend a lovely, nurturing C of E primary where much emphasis is made on friendship and diversity, and yet my 8 year old said recently that some children had been teasing him by pulling their eyes out in that obvious gesture. My husband has had to contend with racism in the past but naively I hadn't imagined our children on the receiving end. It floored me.

Justanotherlurker I honestly don't know if you are being deliberately obtuse or just goady.

There is a long history of oppressed groups reclaiming pejorative words, or claiming them in the case where they weren't theirs to begin with. It is not, however, the place of the dominant group to then insist that those words are suddenly no longer oppressive, no matter how many self depreciating friends they have. Like they say, you can't ask the people who are taking the punches to also take the jokes.

Some Asian people use 'paki' in a self depreciating manner, yet you insist that pack is racist 'all day long'. This distinction is exactly what the OP is about.

just, whether you have heard people of East Asian origin using the phrase "chinky" or not makes no difference. It is widely considered to be offensive language in this country.

FWIW, I spent nearly ten years living in East Asia and have worked closely and extensively with both Chinese and Japanese people for a further decade. I have never heard any of them use the term "chinky", and frankly, I'm incredulous that you have heard this phrase used on so many occasions.

YANBU but it was dished out in equal measure when we went to China and, especially, Taiwan (less tourists). People would openly point and laugh. "waiguoren" if they were being nice, other names if they weren't. It's just rude anywhere really.

mimishimmi, please forgive me if you speak Mandarin, as clearly you would have understood the 'other names' you encountered as a tourist in China and Taiwan, but I'm not sure you can equate the responses of people who rarely encounter Westerners to the racist experiences xiaozhu and others are describing here.

Yes, rudeness is rudeness, and I am sorry if you felt uncomfortable with what people were saying about you. However, my experience of taking my DDs to various places in China has been of encountering curiosity and a desire to engage (and take many photographs!) with these blond, blue eyed kids who do look very different. The comments are invariably complimentary/respectful (as far as our collective limited Mandarin allows us to understand, or when we have had them translated), and I am always amazed by the people who are intrigued by seeing Western kids - including Buddhist monks at temples and university students at museums, who I assumed would really not be that bothered.

xiaozhu, I completely agree with you that it does seem to be considered less offensive to make racist comments about Chinese people. I wonder if the Daily Mail comments are moderated? I can't imagine the equivalent rubbish being said about other ethnicities would be allowed to stand...

Maybe the problem was we are not blonde/blue-eyed? Perhaps our treatment would have been different. I've often been mistaken for being half Chinese (I'm not) and DH is south Asian descent. Other people were also incredibly kind, polite and helpful too. Rude treatment of the non- mainstream is not a problem unique to the West ... jerks can be found in equal measure everywhere and the papers/media that cater to them too.

ChildofGallifrey how awful, I am so sorry you experienced this from your own grandfather. I hope your parents support you.

I have noticed this myself (how some people seem to think racism against Chinese and other East Asian people is somehow less offensive than against South Asian or black people). I don't really understand why they would think this, unless it is that they (East Asians) are more of a minority in the UK than those other groups? Which is appalling, really.

It would be interesting to know the situation in the USA, where there are probably more people of an East Asian than a South Asian background. I don't know the statistics, but am just basing this on the fact that 'Asian' seems to be used to mean East Asian by default in America, whereas over here most people seem to use the term 'Asian' only for people of Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi heritage.

xiaozhu racism is a terrible thing, regardless of who it's directed at. And I'm appalled at the experiences of some of the posters on here.

Not long ago, there was a thread about the use of the word 'paki' and several posters of south Asian origin (myself included) gave our experiences on being called it and how it made us feel. Despite this, a small number of posters said that as some indians/Pakistanis had reclaimed it and were using it as a colloquialism. Therefore, they could use it too.

If some people of the race wish to reclaim it, they can. That is their prerogative. And theirs alone. Personally, I'd prefer if such words disappeared. Saying the word paki makes me feel disgusted and a bit ill, so I can imagine that chinky would invoke the same reaction in east asians.

Chinky is racist and offensive whichever way you use it.

One thing that has bothered me is that often when you are asked to choose an ethnicity on a survey, there are loads of options from White British to Black British - African and Black British - Caribbean but no Chinese British. Just Chinese.

Travelling abroad with a fellow Brit of Chinese descent no one would believe he was British and kept calling him Japanese.

I think it can be traced back to Yellow Peril literature by people like Sax Rohmer (Fu Manchu) and Thomas Burke.