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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that it's unacceptable to frighten someone's DC even if you think they're a nasty bigot?

295 replies

OTheHugeManatee · 23/03/2015 12:20

I just saw this story about protesters forcing Nigel Farage and his family out of a pub where they were having lunch.

I don't really like Farage's politics. But I support his democratic right to hold those views. AIBU to think hounding him and frightening his DC during a family lunch is unacceptable, illiberal and frankly nasty, whatever you think of the things he says?

OP posts:
OTheHugeManatee · 24/03/2015 18:06

But - these people weren't trying to "silence" him - they were expressing their own, contrary view. They have just as much right to express that view as Farage has to express his.

Of course they do. If a bunch of oafs in yellow and purple were to put on a Carnival of Bigotry to interrupt (let's say) Harriet Harman and her family during a pub lunch I would be equally incensed and making the exact same arguments.

I don't think we should be acting as though there is a class of opinions so far beyond the pale that they disqualify people who hold those opinions from being treated with basic civility. Behaviours, yes. Some behaviour is beyond the pale. But not opinions.

I don't see what is so difficult to grasp about this, or why some don't see why the distinction is important.

OP posts:
Hullygully · 24/03/2015 18:07

So if you saw someone you knew to be guilty of hate speech causing hate actions enjoying a nice roast, you'd do nothing because it was a "public place"? Weird.

OrlandoWoolf · 24/03/2015 18:08

hullygully

What would you do if you saw Farage enjoying a meal with his family?

Hullygully · 24/03/2015 18:09

Opinions cause behaviours. Why do you persist in ignoring the fact that an entire political party, accorded debate status with the other mainstream parties, is founded on farages "opinions"

Branleuse · 24/03/2015 18:10

id dress up as a gay donkey and dance about till he ran away

Hullygully · 24/03/2015 18:10

Gi and sit down and explain why he is repellent dangerous and offensive

CunningCat · 24/03/2015 18:12
Grin
OrlandoWoolf · 24/03/2015 18:12

Opinions do cause behaviours. I think that the behaviour of these protestors was wrong. Some people don't.

I think it is a massive own goal for the protestors and just more ammunition for Farage.

OTheHugeManatee · 24/03/2015 18:23

Opinions do cause behaviours, yes. But the key principle here is that we should censure any resulting behaviours, not the opinions that are supposedly behind them.

Otherwise we are slipping into a consensus that someone can be punished for what they think, whence it's a short step to punishing people for what someone else thinks they think. Whence it's but a step for people to be maliciously accused of thinking punishable things, and how can that kind of accusation be rebutted? The Soviet Union and the medieval Catholic Church had thought crime, and I think one of the major ways our culture improves on those is the absence of same. I would not welcome its return, however well-intentioned and motivated by a dislike of racism it is.

Start allowing thoughts to be deserving of punishment and you're on the road to somewhere deeply sinister.

(As an aside, I don't think the whole of UKIP is simply a manifestation of Farage's opinions. You are granting him rather more power than I think he has. The causes of Ukip are complex and part of a Europe-wide phenomenon, and certainly won't be effectively addressed by costuming yourself as a gay donkey and chasing his kids away from Sunday lunch.)

OP posts:
OrlandoWoolf · 24/03/2015 18:25

I wonder what the protestors think they've achieved?

What do those who support the protestors think they have achieved?

Hullygully · 24/03/2015 18:34

What they say, not what they think

If farage kept his opinions to himself, it wouldn't matter

Hullygully · 24/03/2015 18:36

They have made an effort. They have tried to expose how ridiculous ukip is with its gay donkeys and breastfeeding. They stood up and spoke up. Bloody good for them.

Hullygully · 24/03/2015 18:37

His kids weren't chased away. The youngest, btw, was 15 and probably thought it hilarious

Arsenic · 24/03/2015 18:47

I thought they were 10 & 15. Meaning one still at primary school.

Is that not the case?

SaucyJack · 24/03/2015 18:50

"Start allowing thoughts to be deserving of punishment and you're on the road to somewhere deeply sinister"

When those "thoughts" happen to be the policies of the leader of one of the main UK parties, and the "punishment" involved happens to be a bunch of activists staging a non-violent protest, then no- we are not going anywhere even on the same side of the equator as sinister.

Unless you're a Stalinist and you find democracy and free speech sinister obviously.

noexercisefan · 24/03/2015 20:33

Did anyone read the piece in the Guardian about it? Well worth a look - it gives the other side of the story and it's kind of interesting, whatever your politics!

www.theguardian.com/stage/2015/mar/23/beyond-ukip-cabaret-nigel-farage

OrlandoWoolf · 24/03/2015 20:40

So they booked a room under false pretences as a birthday party, held various diversity events, realised they'd fucked up and got the wrong pub and then went to the right pub.

"And so, soon afterwards, a conga line featuring an extraordinary array of different sexualities, ethnicities and outfits sashays across the street in the spring sunshine with a PA machine playing Sister Sledge’s We Are Family. What was pub cabaret has become street theatre. Before I can join the activists who rush into the Queen’s Head , Farage, looking angry and pin-striped, walks quickly from the pub into a waiting car driven, reportedly, by his wife."

This is an article about the EDL who also fucked up. They targetted a book group because they thought Russell Brand was there.

www.independent.co.uk/news/people/edl-members-crash-a-book-group-because-they-thought-russell-brand-would-be-there-9974257.html

I suppose that's also acceptable if you believe in frees speech and the right to protest.

Hillingdon · 24/03/2015 21:07

Dawn - genuine question. You clearly dislike Nigel. We actually dont know 100% whether his kids were there or not and neither do you!

If it had been done to someone you admired would you have been up in arms about it?

Just wondering...

Hullygully · 24/03/2015 21:12

Free speech

Not free HATE speech

personally

SirChenjin · 24/03/2015 21:15

Even free speech has its place. We all know that there are things that you say...and things that you don't - in certain situations, on certain occasions. Unless we want to look like twats.

LikeIcan · 24/03/2015 21:20

Lol hullygully - Nigel Farage is the leader of a major political party - how can he keep his opinions to himself? Grin

Hullygully · 24/03/2015 21:25

Chenin - shame no one managed to get that across to Farage or the EDL

SirChenjin · 24/03/2015 21:31

Did Farage get together with a big rabble of his mates and descend on one of them having a quiet family lunch? Must have missed that in the news.

I don't agree with his politics any more than I agree with the Nats up here but I would never, ever behave like they did - because even I appreciate Nicky Sturgeon and her twuntish colleagues deserve a quiet family lunch occasionally.

SinisterBuggyMonth · 24/03/2015 22:26

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hullygully · 24/03/2015 22:30

I've only just got your name Sir...

Yes, they did indeed get together and foisted themselves all over all of us. They're called UKIP