Aibu to feel sad that welsh is not compulsory in schools in Wales .

[Dowser]

Says it all really.

It's part of the heritage and it's a worry it will die out.

Don't understand it myself.

That wasn't measured, Andrew - it was people's own descriptions of their level of Irish. It has risen significantly on previous years, suggesting a change in attitudes toward the language.

Why do you think people were 'force fed' for exams?

And why will it always be an English speaking country? Because the English ploughed money into banning the speaking of Welsh decades ago.

Mission accomplished, eh?

FFS.

DECADES AGO.

WHY is this ALL that people go on about!?? I am so so so fed up of nasty small minded people with a huge chip on their shoulder being shitty with me for being English because of what some English people did in history.
Fed up. It wouldn't be allowed the other way around.

They even teach it in the schools here. It's all geared up to be totally anti English and it stinks.
Children are told off or bullied or speaking English in school.
Even in the teaching. The first thing they teach about the world wars are dubious 'facts' about how all the Welsh were rounded up to go over the top first.
Or about how a village was flooded to make a reservoir years ago to serve Liverpool.

It's all just anti English all the time. Why can't the Welsh enjoy, celebrate, and share their heritage without having to have a go at the English? It wouldn't be tolerated the other way round.

Fucking sick of it. I came here ready to integrate. I'm now fluent in welsh as I took the trouble to learn it. I was ready to embrace everything and everyone.
10 years later and the lot of them can just fuck off. It'll never be enough because I'll always be English and there'll always be someone to shove the welsh knot in my face like I fucking masterminded it.
Never in my life have I met with such small minded and nasty views.

Thank goodness for the few who took the time to get to know me and welcome me.

Sorry if that reads as really bitter.
It's not all bad here but I was just totally unprepared for how hard it would be and how much animosity I would come up against simply for being English.

Janine It's the word I have heard from Irish colleagues and friends. They have to pass in Irish to get their Leaving Certificate so they are crammed, if you prefer that word, with enough grammar and vocabulary to get through. Of course some of will stay, probably with all of them, but it doesn't mean they like it. As I said upthread, youngsters who did a certain number of years of school outside the country are exempt and are much envied.

In Ireland, Irish language schools are highly aspirational and high achieving esp at primary level but also at secondary level.

And not just that, the students in Irish medium schools consistently outperform students in every other type of school year on year. Several of them see 100% of their students going to third level. Learing through a language that isn't necessarily spoken in the home is an excellent mental stretch.

Ah, anecdata is it, Andrewofgg? I wonder if your colleagues might feel pressurised into such statements by your hostile attitude towards minority languages?

Apocalypse Perhaps that's a function of the sort of people who send their children to them and the sort of education-crazy background they give their children?

Oh and I certainly didn't and don't envy those who were exempt from learning Irish.

Janine Of course it's anecdata, this thread is full of it. But when the natter over coffee turns to such things I don't think I'm more initimidating than anybody else in the office. If you don't want to learn Irish why wouldn't you envy the classmate who does not have to?

Apoc standards of Education in Ireland is better than all of the UK full stop. Always has been!
Comparing Irish medium with Welsh medium is not a great comparison.

Ifyour here's something for you.

I was born in England and lived there until I was three. My entire family is English. I consider myself Welsh as it is all I have ever known.

If you can't hear someone talking about the Welsh not without becoming so irrationally angry and taking it so personally, I think the issue lies with you rather than with the people.

As for 'it would never be tolerated the other way around', of course. Because we never get called sheep shaggers, or told to let our language die, or bullied for talking joskin, or accused of changing language to make someone else feel bad.

We never learned any dubious facts about the world war, not sure where you got that from. We learned about Tryweryn because its a part of Welsh history, and never in the sense of 'Look what these evil English did', in the sense of this is what happened, this is why the lake is there, this is the politics of it all.

Should Germany not be shown as the antagonists of world war 2? Why can't England be proud of its history without having a go at the Germans? Feel free to accuse me of strawmanning or whatever but its the same thing.

I've seen children bullied for speaking Welsh in the playground. Teased for taking part in eisteddfodau. The situation at my uni is ridiculous, people are openly criticised for daring to speak Welsh.

The Welsh language has suffered massively because of English politics. Not average Joe English people, and not today, but to deny it happened, or to take offence at it and say we shouldn't say it, is an attempt to whitewash the history of wales.

I have never met more friendly, proud and welcoming people as I've met in Wales.

An interesting thing about the performance of schools in Wales is that Cardiff have set criteria to recognise areas of deprivation, these are heavily biased towards built up cities and towns meaning that's where the extra funding goes.
I know that the more rural counties have been lobbying Cardiff to change how they assess this.
The funding and performance of schools is very complex.

If you can't hear someone talking about the Welsh not without becoming so irrationally angry and taking it so personally, I think the issue lies with you rather than with the people.

You lost me here.

Really? You're actually being serious?

Are you going to ignore the rest of my post based on that?

And yes. It was an irrational reaction to a statement of fact, that didn't appoint any blame to you as a person whatsoever
whatsoever.

What's confusing wizard?
She's saying that you shouldn't take people talking about the Welsh not personally. No one is holding you personally responsible.
People are just explaining why it's valid to want to repair damage that was done to the cultural heritage of Wales by investing in the language.

She's saying that you shouldn't take people talking about the Welsh not personally. No one is holding you personally responsible

It certainly doesn't feel like that when it's everyone's answer to everything.

I started reading the rest of your post moomin but when you began to compare the English to the Nazis I'm afraid I really gave up. Case and point for me.

I live in pretty much the Welshest(?) area that you can get, and accept that my experiences may be pretty unique. The rest of Wales and the majority of the Welsh people may well be, and probably are, lovely. But I've never felt more unwelcome anywhere.

I'm wondering where you live wizard
Must be near me

As I said upthread, youngsters who did a certain number of years of school outside the country are exempt and are much envied.

Not always. There are lots of Irish people who have a post colonial mentality, plenty of us don't.

I'm lovely though

Oh good grief Ifyour I was not comparing the English to the nazis, I was pointing out how ridiculous your suggestion that we shouldn't teach about Tryweryn is! Is it just that you're unwilling to engage in any serious debate?

mama I wonder if you're near where I grew up?

Apocalypse Perhaps that's a function of the sort of people who send their children to them and the sort of education-crazy background they give their children?

Of course it's partly the parents. They're always the biggest influence on their children's academic attainment. But speaking and learning through a minority language is not an educational dark destroyer.

Celtic, I am really only trying to illustrate that learning through a minority language can be a boon rather a handicap. I honestly don't know whether it's true to say that Irish education is better than UK education, but if there is a issue with learning through Welsh, it's not due to the language, I'd imagine.

I'm trying to remember what you have said about where you grew up now moomin

I'm not really near anyone, but yes I'm probably not too far from you!
Some people have been really nice, but I've just never experienced the whole anti English thing before so was unprepared for it.

I understood your point apocalypse.
I think it is an interesting thing to consider. If performance of Welsh medium schools really is behind English I wonder why that is.
Going to a Welsh medium school never hindered my academic achievements And I did go to primary school in an officially 'deprived' area