Aibu to feel sad that welsh is not compulsory in schools in Wales .

[Dowser]

Says it all really.

It's part of the heritage and it's a worry it will die out.

Don't understand it myself.

Jewel my parents speak only very, very bbasic Welsh, but I speak it to the extent that I represent the department at my university as a student on the panel for Welsh language university education across Wales.

I live in Cardiff. My next door neighbours are Welsh first language and speak it at home. Pontcanna is awash with Welsh speakers. I hear Welsh being used pretty often.

It is interesting, the animosity towards the Welsh language. My husband is english, a relative of his genuinely believes that people in say, North Wales, switch to speaking Welsh to be awkward to English people. The idea it's their first lansguage is something she cannot fathom.

"
The other problem is that the Welsh language teaching in schools is pretty basic and I haven't met anyone yet (with non-Welsh speaking parents) who speaks Welsh with any fluency or confidence."

I do.

Jewel apart from one family, all the children I know who attend Welsh Medium schools speak English at home.

My DD is in the position of having her language choice curtailed because of the compulsory element of Welsh GCSE. She doesn't hate learning Welsh by any means, and is actually quite good at it.
However like all of her classmates without fail, Welsh is not something that they would ever choose over a proper modern foreign language.

I agree with you Judgey.

Frolic - beyond this I can't even be bothered responding to your patronising reply. You think you're so clever but frankly no, you're not. Just unpleasant.

Sunny You suggested that because it is called Wales its principal language is Welsh. That's why I mentioned Frankish and France.

To determine what is the principal language of a country you don't look at its name or its history; you count heads. And that makes English the principal language of Wales.

Are schools reducing opportunities to study other languages because of Welsh? If so, that isnt right. French was compulsory to year 9 and french and.Spanish GCSEs both offered at my school.

Moomin If you have to do Welsh GCSE something else has to go; whether a language or not.

Let's leave it there then annie. I also find your opinions patronising and unpleasant.

I studied English, Welsh and french gcse as well moomin.
French and English a level.
I also come from an English household and am fluent in Welsh

Andrew I left school with 13 GCSEs.. Not sure I missed out on anything.

Well being that the language was beaten out of them rather than dying out eg my friend's parents who are now/would have been (father now dead) in their 70s were made to wear slates round their neck if they spoke Welsh in class , I would say making it compulsory is a good thing.

I am from just over the border from North Wales and lots of people I knew growing up speak Welsh - it is good hat it is coming back in lots of places.

Yes, because I don't agree it should be compulsory Frolic. At the end of the day most in absolute numbers in Wales don't speak the language. Most in absolute numbers will give it up as soon as possible as they don't see the point in it or value it. Most in absolute numbers won't use the little they know. So you saying it should be compulsory for whatever reason is meaningless because at the end of the day most in absolute numbers don't agree with you.

The percentage of people in the whole of Wales that use the language has not increased despite being forced to learn it for a number of years. Why is that I wonder? People saying it should be compulsory for whatever reason - whether it's because they don't want it dying out or your reasons - are scared that percentage figure will drop if it's not compulsory. Isn't it sad that you have to force people to learn it? Defeats the object to me.

And yes of course your hairdresser might find Welsh language skills a benefit - and all the other jobs you listed - because they live in an area where Welsh is used or might come in handy once in a while. They're hardly going to say differently. But the fact is it's a minority area in terms of population. According to the 2011 census 73% don't have any Welsh language skills in the whole of Wales. Less than 15% can speak, read and write it - this is down about 2% from the previous census. Compulsory Welsh language education is clearly not working. So why keep ploughing funds into it at the expense of a health service for example that is in particularly bad shape in Wales? You can't force people to become bilingual if they don't want to for whatever reason.

It's compulsory here to GCSE. All primary schools are Welsh medium. No English until ks2. It's a jolly good thing, the advantages of being bilingual are enormous. Some very ignorant and prejudiced opinions on this thread.

Which all comes back to the point about should it be allowed to die out as Dowser is worrying about. No, I don't think it should be allowed to die out and I don't think it will. It's clearly thriving in certain parts and that won't change. In the south there's an increase in demand for Welsh medium schools so that will allow it to flourish. But these people are choosing that and they should be able to, just as us traditional English speakers should be allowed to choose not to speak it. Choice is important, not least because being forced to learn it is changing nothing. But Wales will always predominantly be an English speaking country. That won't change.

Because it's part of the cultural heritage of the country? Because languages are inherently a good thing? You can't force people to become bilingual, no, but you can keep a language alive.

Interestingly, the most recent census in Ireland has 44% of women and 36% of men describing themselves as 'having some Irish'. That's a rise on previous stats.

Unless you're going to a Welsh medium school or have Welsh speaking parents you won't be bilingual. The lessons kids at English speaking schools receive doesn't make them bilingual anymore than two years of French does. They might be able to pass a GCSE but that's about it.

And why will it always be an English speaking country? Because the English ploughed money into banning the speaking of Welsh decades ago.

Mission accomplished, eh?

To clear a few things up -
I am English but live in Wales and am married to a very Welsh man. All except one of my friends here are Welsh speaking, and my children go to Welsh medium school.

I believe that the Welsh heritage is important, and that children learning Welsh as a language in school is a GOOD thing.
BUT I believe that (and it has been proven) Welsh medium schools set pupils at a disadvantage in a largely English speaking world, and that parents should have a choice between Welsh or English medium education. I do not.

The number of people I know who have a very poor grasp of the English language, and who suffer in the wider world for it, is shocking. I had no idea before I moved here that there are young people in the uk who can't read or write properly in English, because of their education.

I have no animosity towards welsh people or the welsh language. I just find it pretty fucking irritating that you can't say anything which could be construed as a criticism of anything welsh without being labelled as anti-welsh and 'the arrogant English.' The abuse and discriminatory treatment I've had since moving here was totally unexpected and has been quite tough to endure.
And again on this thread. I really, REALLY resent being basically accused of bigotry for agreeing with statistics proving that Welsh medium education is below the standard of English medium.

That's not necessarily down to educating in another medium though. In Ireland, Irish language schools are highly aspirational and high achieving esp at primary level but also at secondary level. So I suspect there's something else going on there.

Moomin So what? Why should children and their parents who are not interested be punished for that?

In any case, Janine, how much Irish? As much as is left over after the exam they were force-fed so that they could pass?

But surely wizard you realised that some English people leave English schools unable to read or write. It is a terrible thing but I wouldn't say it's down to Welsh medium education.
I think it's obvious from my posts that I live in Gwynedd. It would be pointless offering English medium schools here as they would be so undersubscribed. The majority of households in Gwynedd are Welsh and I would imagine it would be a very small amount of non Welsh speakers who would want to disadvantage their children by sending them to English medium schools.

I'd love to learn to speak Welsh. I live in the Midlands so might not have the opportunity to use it much, but, the language fascinates me.