to think that no wonder the NHS A&E depts waiting time is bad, there are so many timewasters.

[CalicoBlue]

I just spent the afternoon (3 hours) in Urgent Care/A&E with DS. I have not been to A&E in over 12 years and was really surprised at all the reasons people were there for. Granted if it had not been the weekend I would have gone to my GP, but my son's condition meant he needed to be seen today.

We were sat very close to the welcome window, so I heard every new person come in. There were so many people there who should not have been. The nurse kept asking people if they had seen their GP, so many said no.

One girl said that she had been there last week had been given antibiotics for a water infection and it had not gone so she wanted to see the doctor again, the nurse said that she should have made an appointment for her doctor and that urgent care was not to come to instead of the GP. There were at least two that had lost prescriptions given by their GP so wanted UC to replace them and would not take no for an answer. It went on an on, another person came in with his father who had an ongoing leg problem, the nurse tried to explain that he needed to see his GP, but he did not have one as he was on holiday and wanted to get his leg sorted before he went home again, they did tell him that they would not see him and he would not get the operation he said he wanted on the NHS.

I estimated that at least one third of the people coming there could have been seen by their GP. There were lots who did need to be seen, and lots of sick kids, but they had to wait so long. I felt quite guilty for being and taking up the doctors time.

Lots of dramatics on MN tonight...astounded by the number of people who were 'rushed into A&E'. You couldn't have been 'rushed in' that fast if you had time to hear people in the waiting room complaining about it.

I took my DC to the local Polyclinic with thumb iinjuries (which turned out to be fractures) and a very bruised hand (which turned out not to be fractured)
No point getting a GP appointment, they would've sent me to A&E or for a X-Ray anyway.

DS had an injury, I took him to Polyclinic and they sent me onto A&E ( luckily I was driving)

My strapping tall 15yo sat in Childrens A&E, lots of vomiting, bleeding children about us. We waited 3+hours.

In the circumstances, I'd still go to A&E / Polyclinic rather than the GPs if I thought they'd just refer me anyway.
I know each A&E visit costs the practise £75 but as an NHS worker myself, I'm relying on my instinct.

It's difficult to tell receptionists things, half the waiting room can usually hear you at my hospital - the receptionists sit behind a glass screen facing out into the waiting hall thingy (massive building) and I always worry people will hear. I have an extensive 'down below' history and I should be more honest - get seen quicker - but I hate talking about it. I'm not trying to be nasty or offensive, it's more my problems I think !

Tedd because people lie, or won't tell the receptionist what's wrong, or exaggerate symptoms.

Depending on your practice population telephone triage doesn't always work well and isn't necessarily the best use of the GP/NPs time.

I had some corkers last week in Triage in our UCC -

man who had a cold and had had two nosebleeds in the past 5 days and wanted an ENT referral - goodbye go to your GP

man with a cold - goodbye and go to the chemist

man who wanted an operation on his piles at 23:30 - you are not going to die from your piles there is no chance of you having a pile operation tonight so go back to you GP for a referral

girl who smoked some weed and was feeling anxious - go home, relax and eat some chocolate

the list was endless and there was a 2 hour wait to just see me at one point due to the complete and utter time wasters

I did admit to potentially misusing minor injuries on the first page. Still not 100% if I did or not.

The reason there is such a problem at A&E is that on top of those who really need it there are people who can't get GP appointments and the timewasters. Those who can't get GP appointments can't get them because of more timewasters and, that is the biggest problem.

My friend works in a GP practice with 14,500 patients and the stories of timewasting are amazing to those of us with an ounce of common sense. They also calculated the appointments wasted by those who don't turn up and, in an average month, it was equivalent to a full time GP. Obviously those appointments could have been used to save others having to go to A&E

The biggest problem the NHS faces is not inefficiency or the Tories, it is the demand from the public who have lost all sense of what is reasonable. The Times quoted something today that the average patient, some time ago (sorry can't remember when though) visited the GP four times a year, now the average is seven times a year. Not all of that can be blamed on an ageing population

I am sure some people go to the GP more than necessary. But what is rarely acknowledged is that some healthcare that was previously done by hospital outpatients, is now done by GPs. This of course increases the amount of appointments patients need. In addition, there is rightly now recommended review intervals for various chronic conditions.

I do not necessarily agree but I suspect the time will eventually come when we are charged to visit A & E and possibly the GP too but is it not quite likely that a/children will not be charged , in the same way that they are not charged for presciptions, b/ nor the elderly, ditto, or c/pregnant women, or d/those with certain serious health problems. There could also be exemptions for the unemployed or those on certain other benefits. So, to play devil's advocate for a bit, would it be so bad? There is a school of thought that posits that we do not fully appreciate something which appears to be free, (for example cat rescue homes used to give cats and kittens away but now generally charge, in part so that the new owners might feel that they have a vested interest in the animal and may treat pet ownership in a responsible manner) likewise it may make us think more responsibly about using or abusing the NHS. Just saying..... (Ducks and runs)

tartyflette it will become another stick to beat poor people with "oh look they get to see their GP for free"

And privatisation of the NHS is a big threat.

While most ppl were watching Ant and Dec last night i was watching Selling Off Britain on Ch 4 Interesting yet scary programme.

Indeed it is, Helena, i completely agree about privatisation, it makes me furious to think of private companies making a profit out of the NHS, but as it is becoming clear fom people's experiences on this thread the system is stretched to almost breaking point which is sadly why I think charges could ( not should ) eventually be introduced. Whether they will work or not is another matter.

We've often walked into a&e with a 'well looking' child. However due to bowel disease if he needs a bowel washout the hospitals agreed route of care is via a&e despite having an open access paediatric ward letter - we have to go there first and often get treated in a&e and not the ward. Oh and we have to go a different health authority in another county over 1 hour drive away as there's no one in our health authority to do one without a few days warning and certainly never on a weekend .

My dp called an ambulance with stomach pain.. Paramedics thought he was ok, he demanded to be taken to hospital. A short time later while he was in hospital he was told he had terminal bowel cancer and required emergency operation within 20 mins.... judge for yourself if he was ill enough and what would have happened if the paramedics hadnt taken him in and then ask if you are are medically informed more than the paramedics i mentioned earlier.....
...

One of the reasons A&E waits around here are long is that the bastard Tories have shut 2 London A&Es (including a cardiac specialist) and want to shut 2 more, including one that is already constantly jam-packed. Because what you need when you have a heart attack or other emergency is to be stuck in a 45 minute everyday city traffic jam to the nearest one that won't be shut.

I was recently taken to A&E by ambulance with a suspected heart attack. Whatever they pay the staff, it isn't enough. It was a hellhole (noisy, brightly lit, uncomfortable and amazingly smelly, due to the drunk next to me, all difficult to deal with when you are feeling ill), and I am boggling at the idea of going there for something that wasn't really urgent.

Drunk/drugged people definitely shouldn't be seen. Put them in a room of beds and charge them £20 on discharge. Keep a record so those with issues can be monitored.

drugged and drunk people still can have injuries that need to be seen...

I got really told off once in a+e for going as the doctor said "this is not something we should be dealing with, you should not have come in"
I was mortified. I'd felt so ill and nowhere else was open as it was the weekend. He really upset me.

Most drugged and drunk people do not though, some do, but if I am very ill in A&E or with an elderly relative/kids I do not need a group of pissed up idiots coming in being loud and smelly and ignorant.

i was told off by the triage nurse as well when attending with a limping dc.
gp was closed that day.
we walked out with cast+crutches (broken leg...)

I just got sent on my way

Had to then drive miles to a private hospital emergency walk in and pay £££ for the treatment I needed

waiting private healthcare has massively different ethics to the NHS. If you needed the treatment surely the NHS would have given it to you? You don't say what it was?

Less than 10% of private hospitals have a crash team so I guess you weren't having a heart attack?

Am astounded at the thought that a gp has a 2 hour lunch then goes home early.
Ours do appts from 8.30 am, home visits 11 till 2.30, appts 2.30 till 6.
In between that they do letters, referalls, write up repeat prescriptions, review blood test results before patient come in for follow up appt etc etc.
my elderly parents recently got a sheltered housing flat due to dad's condition. A major part of that was assessments and letters going back and forth, some of it done by their gp and all of it outside surgery hours.

Where do you draw the line with "drunk" people? Tripped after a couple of glasses of wine and broken ankle acceptable? Getting chest pains but had a couple of drinks at dinner ok? bladdered but been hit by a stranger?

What about smokers then? That's a drug isn't it? Should we turn away Anything smoking related?

If we carry on we could get rid of most people from a and e departments, might kill a few along the way but at least they would only be treating those deemed worthy of treatment!

For whatever reason, OK it's going to be funding, our NHS is creaking at the seams. Completely unsustainable in its present form.

A long, boring story, but I was left in agony with a suspected kidney stone. Couldn't get an ambulance or pain relief. Was told to take paracetamol. Eventually I was referred to an out of hours service. Waited there for nearly 90 minutes, in agony.

Only just managed to reach pharmacy for meds and pain relief, as they closed at midnight.

Just appalling and scary. People are scared when they're in pain.