to think that no wonder the NHS A&E depts waiting time is bad, there are so many timewasters.

[CalicoBlue]

I just spent the afternoon (3 hours) in Urgent Care/A&E with DS. I have not been to A&E in over 12 years and was really surprised at all the reasons people were there for. Granted if it had not been the weekend I would have gone to my GP, but my son's condition meant he needed to be seen today.

We were sat very close to the welcome window, so I heard every new person come in. There were so many people there who should not have been. The nurse kept asking people if they had seen their GP, so many said no.

One girl said that she had been there last week had been given antibiotics for a water infection and it had not gone so she wanted to see the doctor again, the nurse said that she should have made an appointment for her doctor and that urgent care was not to come to instead of the GP. There were at least two that had lost prescriptions given by their GP so wanted UC to replace them and would not take no for an answer. It went on an on, another person came in with his father who had an ongoing leg problem, the nurse tried to explain that he needed to see his GP, but he did not have one as he was on holiday and wanted to get his leg sorted before he went home again, they did tell him that they would not see him and he would not get the operation he said he wanted on the NHS.

I estimated that at least one third of the people coming there could have been seen by their GP. There were lots who did need to be seen, and lots of sick kids, but they had to wait so long. I felt quite guilty for being and taking up the doctors time.

Have you read the posts in reply to yours 850? They make it pretty clear why it's stupid.

DS is only 5 but has brittle asthma and the damage done to his lungs means he isn't going to get any better, probably worse, as he gets older. If companies had to pay for insurance for staff do you think anyone would employ him or anyone else with a chronic condition?

Where do you think companies will get the money from to pay for the insurance?

I read in the local paper that a girl from the neighbouring town turned up to a&e because her extensions were hurting

FFS.

The employee insurance thing is not a complete solution but it's not actually that stupid. If we all had insurance, it would be reasonable to expect employers to pick up the tab. There would need to be regulations (as I believe is the case on the continent) that preclude insurers from refusing to insure someone on the basis of a pre-existing condition.

My employer pays for my insurance, for example, and I have had cancer and have a genetic predisposition to getting more. It's not an issue. All my scans are covered and are better organized and more frequent than in the UK, based on the research rather than in what the NHS can afford.

I do think some people need to realize that decent healthcare in the UK requires more money (and the gov/taxpayer is unlikely to stump up) so some form of insurance or co-payment is going to be necessary at some future point. It doesn't mean the end of "free of the point of delivery" though and should've delivered with the most disadvantaged/poor in mind. (Which I accept is not happening right now).

Should've = should be. Not wearing my glasses.

Insurance based systems have to pay shareholders. This means that the cost of healthcare goes up and insurance companies try to find reasons not to pay out. People who are uninsurable find it a struggle to access health care. There are advantages to the nhs.

I'm surprised that some of mil's visits weren't reported on that GP website. She went once to ask if it was ok for her to use the jacuzzi at the hotel gym she'd joined (the doctor said yes, fine, but he wouldn't with all the germs sloshing in and out of people) and then another time she actually made an appointment, went down to the surgery and waited and saw the doctor to report that her hair had a greenish tinge after going swimming directly after it had been tinted. Rather unsurprisingly, she found herself moved from that doctor's list.

Actually, she had a bit of a crush on her GP. She said that on one of her many visits, the doctor had examined her and said her legs were very good (I think he meant there was nothing wrong with them) so I said, "Oh, I must visit this GP and get complimented on my legs!" "Oh, no, Brenda," purses mil, "He wouldn't say that about your legs." [big elephant leg emoticon]

Somebody I know suffered a dog bite recently; went to GP surgery where the nurse cleaned & dressed the wound. When they got home the surgery called to say they needed a tetanus jab but it couldn't be done at the GP surgery and to go to A&E!!!

Luckily A&E was quiet when they went but they said how bad they felt wasting the staff's time for something the GP surgery should do.

Fsometimes I have to go in as often as once a week for two injections. Because the gps surgery GPs and district nurses aren't allowed to carry it. Sometimes I am seen quickly and sometimes it is hours.

So don't prejudge anyone who appears healthy in a and e

OldFarticus - As has already been said, in Britain the majority of people work for small employers. There is a big difference an employer with thousands of workers taking on a worker with chronic health problems, and one with 40 staff. I know people who work who already can't go on holiday abroad as the cost of travel insurance is extortionate.

850Pro, where do you start? What happens to the retired/disabled/unemployed/under 18s?
How are companies supposed to afford it? Who would employ those with chronic illnesses, like diabetes?
That's just for starters. Like I said, stupidest comment ever.

Many chronic illnesses are more expensive to treat over years, than an acute illness such as cancer.

I have no idea how I would cope with my health without the NHS.

Medication alone would cost me a small fortune, a hundred pounds a month for the basic stuff, if I don't have an infection. With an infection I could be taking up to three different antibiotics, and end up in hospital getting a midline fitted so I could have intravenous medication as in the time it took to find the correct one, it had progressed.

I currently see a psychiatrist, a urogynaecologist, a urologist, a pain management consultant, a rheumatologist, a physiotherapist, a nurse for weight management, and the GP every two weeks.

None of my conditions will improve, apart from maybe my incontinence which will require two operations to find out, and maybe a reduction in kidney pain when they operate to remove my kidney. My mental health will fluctuate, but I've accepted it's for life and needs management, I don't hope for a cure.

It's almost a full time job just managing to keep up with my health, working is a goal I have yet to achieve since I had to give up almost ten years ago, I need to be able to find something suited to my ability that allows me to continue with this health regime and also be a productive employee.

Because of the reactive way my health is treated, rather than say a preventative approach, it means it has taken me this whole ten years to get an idea of what the health challenges are that I am facing. I have only just had my incontinence diagnosed after nine years, and I am now facing also having bowel issues needing diagnosed, which means more months of waiting for investigation and possibly years before diagnosis.

I'd agree with that miriaman I've been in and out of hospitals all my life

I've had over 20 years of physio, specialist appointments, never mind all the medications I've tried and didn't work. Currently I see 4 different specialists and a physio not including my numerous a&e trips each year nor including the fact I really need support with my mental health but sont want to waste my GPs time with another appointment

I'd hate to think how much I've cost the country!

Just as well I work really! Else I'd really feel guilty!

A 'younger female GP' admonished me recently for not going to see her earlier about my health issues. She said "you don't do Doctors do you?".

I lightly admonished her for mot scanning down the 20 pages of notes under the first screen on her PC.

I said "I may not have seen you but have seen every other GP in this surgery - I am just giving you edited highlights of my health situation as you only have 15 minutes."

She then referred me to A&E. I didn't need to go.

mariamin the point is that my cancer was not simply an acute illness. Statistically, I have a very low likelihood of not getting other primaries. So on paper, I am uninsurable. However, thanks to the regulations concerning health insurance - which exist because everyone has to have it irrespective of their history - they cannot refuse to insure me.

I think we have got used to healthcare being "free" and as a result, we don't value it, hence timewasting in A&E. At the other end of the spectrum, we have GP's who are probably so inured to timewasters they suspect everyone of malingering and don't have the time or the inclanation to listen to patients or their relatives.

One thing that is clear is that the NHS cannot survive in its present form, and there will need to be some form of co-payment or insurance if it is to continue offering free at point of use healthcare to a growing and ageing population. Admitting this would be political suicide, so even Cameron is keeping his trap shut for now. Leaving politics aside, surely its better to look at the alternatives now and choose the best one rather than just sleepwalk towards the US system via a series of NHS crises, which is the route we currently seem to be taking?

Personally I would not mourn the loss of the NHS, mainly because I don't think it delivers the best deal for patients (and I am still bitter over nearly being murdered by it) . Staff are on a pretty good wicket, especially at senior level, so they have an interest in keeping the gravy train running. The question remains why - if the NHS is so great - only the UK has it? Do people really imagine that people suffer or die through lack of affordable medical care in France, Germany, Switzerland, etc?

I went to a and e for a toothache as I was in utter agony in the middle of the night. You can go for dental. I got morphine or some such strong painkiller, just so I could sleep.