to think that no wonder the NHS A&E depts waiting time is bad, there are so many timewasters.

[CalicoBlue]

I just spent the afternoon (3 hours) in Urgent Care/A&E with DS. I have not been to A&E in over 12 years and was really surprised at all the reasons people were there for. Granted if it had not been the weekend I would have gone to my GP, but my son's condition meant he needed to be seen today.

We were sat very close to the welcome window, so I heard every new person come in. There were so many people there who should not have been. The nurse kept asking people if they had seen their GP, so many said no.

One girl said that she had been there last week had been given antibiotics for a water infection and it had not gone so she wanted to see the doctor again, the nurse said that she should have made an appointment for her doctor and that urgent care was not to come to instead of the GP. There were at least two that had lost prescriptions given by their GP so wanted UC to replace them and would not take no for an answer. It went on an on, another person came in with his father who had an ongoing leg problem, the nurse tried to explain that he needed to see his GP, but he did not have one as he was on holiday and wanted to get his leg sorted before he went home again, they did tell him that they would not see him and he would not get the operation he said he wanted on the NHS.

I estimated that at least one third of the people coming there could have been seen by their GP. There were lots who did need to be seen, and lots of sick kids, but they had to wait so long. I felt quite guilty for being and taking up the doctors time.

I had this discussion with my df last week he said a lot of people go because there are no prescription charges!

I am on a medication that means I'm classed as being immunocompromised. I am in the position that, if I am unwell out of my GPs surgery hours (8:30-6:30 mon-fri) I cannot be seen at either of the local walk in centres due to their policies. I then have to call the 111 service and be assessed by them and hope that their system will agree to sending me to the OOH GP service though, almost every time I have tried this ive been told to present myself at A&E within 4 hours.

I used to be a nurse in an A&E department so hate being sent there when a GP would be able to treat me.

When I went there I was prescribed steroids but had to pay, though they did give me the first dose that night. I think that's the case for everyone...

surpriseitsme - Presumably this is for medicines that can be bought over the counter? Then maybe a nurse that could deal with these appointments would be better?

Teddtess would that include women whose drink has been spiked by a potential rapist?

No of course not, instead of these hypothetical situations just go to A&E on a weekend night, it is quite clear.

The group of 20 year olds coming in laughing, they have been pushing their mates in a shopping trolley, he fell out and hurt his leg, the paraletic girls worried about their friend who is unconscious drunk etc etc

Last time I was in, a drunk came and sat next to me as I was sitting in a chair waiting to be triaged and tried to chat me up. I had walking pneumonia and was too ill to do anything about it. The nurse kept having to interrupt what she was doing to chase him away. Bloody prat.

While I was being seen, I could hear another man wailing and whining because he was having some blood taken. I know I don't sound sympathetic. He was also drunk and loved the sound of his own voice.

The doctor in A&E diagnosed me via X ray then gave me the choice of being kept in and having to put up with the other patients and risk of infection or going home and taking oral antibiotics. I chose the latter.

I only went to A&E because my own doctor managed not to diagnose pneumonia twice and I ended up untreated and very ill. On my second visit, I nearly collapsed and struggled to walk even a few steps. He told me I had a bad cold and it would pass. Seriously, what were they even thinking?

How do you know if it is something serious/a&e worthy if you are not medically trained?

A few years ago, I was having serious chest pains and passed out. DP took me into a&e and it turned out that I was just having a panic attack and was sent away by triage as it was not serious and would stop on its own soon enough. But how would I have known it was not serious had I not been to a&e?

There are stories on here which work the other way round - "minor" health concerns sent to a&e by NHS Direct which turn out to be serious.

How do you decide what needs urgent care and what doesn't?

I would also like to point out that on the day that I passed out, people were giving me filthy looks in the waiting room as I was in my late teens and dressed up for a night out. They assumed I was a young, paraletic time waster when I hadn't even made it out of the house to touch any alcohol before it all started!

This is what I mean about making assumptions in waiting rooms. Everyone thinks that their issue is more serious than the person sitting next to them but you just do not know.

I agree about making assumptions in the waiting room.

My friend went with stomach pain and high heart rate. He walked for nearly an hour as an ambulance wouldn't be sent out for him. He was told to go home he was fine. He then fainted in A and E and was recommended he went home. He refused.

A few hours later he was being prepped for surgery as his bowel had ruptured and if he had gone home he would have died. You just never know.

I walked to the hospital A and E from my house ad I had a badly broken thumb. No one suggested I was a time waster or should have gone to my gp. There are plenty of people with valid reasons for attending a and e who have no problems walking.

in my area three is a walk in clinic, but that does not stop idiots turning up to a and e. I feel there needs to be fines for those who abuse a and e. Maybe there should be a TV campaign on what a and e is for.

A few years ago in the deprived area we lived in they had a scheme where you could register with the GP to get free medication for common ailments from a pharmacy.

I know children were eligible not sure re other people who don't pay for prescriptions.

Designed to reduce people going to GP just for 'free' medication. Things like headlice treatment and children's paracetamol were on it.

Not sure if it was a national thing or a trial.

Many of the people who abuse a and e are not from deprived backgrounds. They are people who are impatient to see a gp or it is more convient for them to go to a and e on a Saturday than to miss work during the week. There is the issue that it's not alway possible to get a GP appointment within three days. A and e is not always choca block. If you attend a and e at 7am on a Sunday like I did with my broken thumb it is very quiet. You don't get any time wasters at 7am!

I feel the govement should make it a legal right to get unpaid time off work to see a GP. They should stop head teachers of school insisting that children see a GP after school.

I fell off my horse and knocked myself out and thought I'd broken my arm. DH took me into A&E on a Sunday afternoon and when I checked in, was told "what do you expect if you ride a horse" which I didn't think particularly helpful or kind (and I suspect she didn't say that to the footballer who came in with an ankle injury, nor the bloke who'd fallen off his bike). The arm wasn't broken and that was enough for them so I was told to take 2 paracetamol and go home - in fact I'd done major damage to the ligaments and tendons which resulted in me having 2 operations, neither of which have been entirely successful due to the delay of 12 month in diagnosis. If they'd taken me seriously there and then it would have saved them a whole packet of money if nothing else.

Another fall (I know, I'm an idiot) and I rang my GP's surgery to say I'd been knocked out and hurt my back and asked if should I come to them or go to A&E. I was told to go to A&E so did that and went to my lovely local hospital who were faultless in their care. They rang my GP to tell him that I had serious concussion and they wanted him to know in case anything developed from that. He asked to see me on my way home and then reexamined me and gave me a bollocking for going to A&E when I should have gone to see him. He was only a little apologetic when I said that I'd been given the advice by his own staff.

To stop people using A&E as a drop in clinic for stuff that the GP could do is not only going to take a shedload of money, it requires a change in people's attitude which is a whole lot harder. Generally I think A&E is a fab resource we are lucky to have access to.

I think that there needs to be a drop in clinic next to A and E. A lot of what comes through A and E doesn't really need a doctor yet a lone a nurse.

frostyfingers I am sorry you suffered a ligament injury. I think that ligament injuries are really hard to diagnose. I broke my thumb and associated the ligament injury has been worse than the broken bone. (It was the type of break that you did not need to be medically qualifed to diagnose!) I saw plenty of doctors (including an othopedic consultant) about the break and none of them noticed the ligament injury straight away.

Sorry what I meant that a lot that comes through a and e does not require a doctor, yet a lone a and e. There are times when someone needs immediate medical attention, but it does not require a doctor. For example I had a really nasty gash in my head that needed to be glued. The triage nurse was able to tell I was able to tell I did not have concussion. However I had to wait four and half hours for a doctor glue my head. (My head was still bleeding after four and half hours!) It would have been good to have had a second nurse who could attend to minor injuries. I would have been more comfortable waiting to see a doctor if my head had not been bleeding for four hours.

Yabu you no idea why the people are there. Recently ive been twice once with dh and once with dfil. Both walking. You have seen what was wrong with dfil as he had blood over his face and head. He opened the boot of the car and hit his head against it. Head injuries really do bleed! Dh injury you wouldnt have seen unless you looked at his hand but he sliced open two fingers taking a huge amount if skin off and went down to bone. He was seen within 20 mins. Strangely not much blood. We had to go weekly for dressings for abit. It would have looked like he was jumping the queue each time then as he had an appt at a&e as the gp is closed by the time he returned from work so a&e offered dressing appts.

Forgot to say both times dfil and dh were treated by the nurse after being trianged although i my dh had a doctor check his range of movement which was limited.

not people with cancer or chronic illness who need to be careful but healthy people who think a 3 day cold or heat rash requires medical intervention

But how does anyone know who has these things? I have a chronic illness and I'm on immunosuppressants so I'm very cautious with my health. However I'm often made to feel like a time waster because people don't bother to look at my medical history and gain some understanding of my concerns. I never see the same GP twice and they are just about loading my records up on the screen when I get into their office, so haven't seen my underlying conditions.

Not their fault they are pressed for time, I know, but I am so sick of being made to feel like a hypercondriac by professionals when I have genuine concerns (and usually not wrongly either).

Yes, there are significant numbers of 'time wasters' in A&E and those who have been unable to get an appointment with their GP.

There needs to be more public education and a lot more GPs to decrease the burden on A&E departments.

I think to improve A and E you need to look at the whole of community medicine. A huge problem that many GPs have is people not turning up to appointments. In fact not turning up to appointments is a big problem across the NHS.

I feel that anyone who misses a GP/ hospital/ therapist appointment should be fined £25 even if the patient is a child or the patient is on income support. People on income support could be allowed to pay the fine in installments. There should be an appeals proceedure to allow the fine to be wavied in exceptional circumstances. (Ie. someone missing an antenatal appointment because they went into labour, or someone has been hurt in a car accident.) Possibly higher level tax payers should be fined £100 so that the fine acts as deterent.

With mobile phones there is really no excuse of not informing someone that you cannot make an appointment. Our GP surgery allows people to make and cancel appointments online. In spite of lots of fancy technology 1 in 10 people fail to turn up to an appointment at our local GP surgery. If those appointments could be freed up for those who need them then there would would be less pressure on GPs.