to ban DD from school dinners?

[AlmondAmy]

DD is 7 yo, 112cm tall and 4.5 stone. Before free school meals, she'd eat 8-)9 portions of fruit and veg per day and was always chirpy and active. Recently she's become lethargic, moody and irritable and has put weight on. She won't eat fruit/veg but is constantly complaining that she's hungry and trying to get her siblings food. She is greedy to the point of making herself sick from gorging on so much rubbish food at parties.

School dinners this week have included pizza, mash, bread and chocolate muffin, breaded fish, chips and flapjack and sausages, mash, bread and chocolate cake with custard. A packed lunch is typically a roast chicken wrap, couple squares of cheese, tomato, peppers, cucumber, carrots and hummus, strawberries and a biscuit.

School give out reward stickers for an empty plate, which I completely disagree with. DD is desperate to keep having school dinners but I think they're rubbish and affecting her weight and mood and want to go back to packed lunch everyday. ExH thinks I'm being cruel to deny her and says he'll ask school how to order them so my packed lunch goes to waste He says her weight is fine and a healthy appetite should be encouraged. I don't think practically salivating over other peoples food and asking for it despite just having had a meal is 'healthy' at all. AIBU?

I beg to differ about 5 lunches not affecting a child.

Dd used to have school dinners. not only did she become very bloated and lethargic on them she also filled up on the bread and puddings as bread is always provided too

so there would he bread along side spaghetti bolognase and the sponge pudding.

She was also far to full at yea tome yo manage another main meal so it git very hard to get enough fruit and veg into her (soggy veg was never touched at school)

so as full and not hungry as dd was. I can well.imagine it could also work the other way. leaving the dd still hungry so she bunged later on as the school meal didn't satisfy her at all when a packed lunch could he made in a way that lasted her.

I would see a gp though because it does sound possibly like there could be other factors. bit I'd definitely swap back

And its all very well saying the puddings don't contain X but of that's true then what's the point of them.

butter would add some fat and dairy. egg would add some protein.
If there's nothing in them.then surly that just proves the point that they are cheap empty calories used not fill up the kids rather than increasing protein levels in the main meal.

and the "strict guidelines" may look good but when you read between the lines it still allows more fried food than you'd give at home. heavy cheesed based meals for veges more often than vegetarians would probably like.

Our school meals contain dairy, eggs, fish, beans, lentils, strawberries. I've never heard of dairy free school dinners.

I have had to ban my dcs from having seconds of hot school dinners, we got into a pattern of them inhaling their first servings so quickly and rushing up for seconds/thirds that come actual dinner time at home they wouldn't eat because they'd be full still, then a regular sized breakfast meant come school dinners they were ravenous again.

I got called in by the school to ask if and what I was feeding them because come lunch they were eating so much food and so quickly I was mortified but the school were allowing them to stuff themselves with 2/3 meals (including puddings!) even though they have unlimited fruit/veg and bread/milk/water all through the lunch session.

YANBU. I'm a teacher, earlier this year we moved to a new build and as part of developing the school community most of the teachers decided to have school lunches so we could sit with the children and help bonds to develop (2 schools merged into the new build).

I've never eaten such stodgy crap in my life, I changed my evening meal to a lighter meal (as pointed out, no one needs two big meals a day) but that honestly didn't make a difference. I felt sluggish, my skin was a mess and after 8 weeks I put weight on (my clothes were tight). And that was with making healthier choices in the evening.

It surprises me that even the averaged sandwich (pre packed in the school kitchen) had 400+ calories in it. It actually horrifies me that 'chips and gravy' are written onto the menu as a meal!

There's a misunderstood concept that school dinners are very healthy after Jamie Oliver came along and forced them all to change. What actually happened was that many schools changed to an academy and employed catering companies who need to make money. That is reflected in the cheap and disgusting food that is offered to our children at lunch times.

Unfortunately, our catering company comes with the building (rented) so there is nothing we can do - afaik. I encourage my students to bring a packed lunch, I even discuss easy things they can make themselves (teens) to being in and often show them what I've brought too. It seems to help some of them.

I'd never let my DS have school lunches, they're very unhealthy and I'm not surprised your DD's health has started to suffer. And offering stickers for an empty plate - WTF!?

titsalina your school were wrong for allowing this. school meals are supposed to be portion sized and seconds shouldn't be available. Our bread is limited to one piece each (triangle) not full slice, one glass of milk each but water always available if still thirsty, and definitely no second helpings of anything but salad. Even tomato sauce/salad cream is strictly one teaspoon each.

I agree with the poster who said that schools can't win.

If they encourage eating everything on the plate they're encouraging overeating, but if they don't then parents complain that they're paying for nothing or their children come home hungry.

If they don't provide some choices that are popular with children (pizza, puddings etc) then children don't want them and it becomes financially unviable.

If they police lunchboxes they're overstepping the mark but if they don't they're failing in their duty to promote healthy eating.

They provide 5 meals out of 21 per week yet are somehow in the firing line for the nation's unhealthy children.

They tell parents that children can only drink water at school but every day there's someone on here explaining why their special snowflake should be exempt.

How about they provide a decent two course hot meal for the measly pittance people are willing to pay and if you don't like them or your darling is the first kid in history that can't function afterwards, you provide a packed lunch and save yourself a load of angst?

m.bbc.co.uk/news/education-30644523

this is what I meant.

so basically chicken nuggets and chips twice a week is fine.

pie and mash twice a week would be fine

and I'm sure I've read on here that's schools count sweet corn as a vegetable. so pie mash peas and sweetcorn would pass but actually they'd be no veg.

reduced fat milk too also. Most of MN is usually up in arms about semi skimmed milk.

It allows fir a hell.of alot of processed rubbish if you think about it.

Could she be in a growth spurt - you often hear of dc filling out before going up? If it v recent and sudden.

Tbh having a bigger meal at lunch and smaller at dinner time is meant to be the healthier way of eating as you burn of the bigger dinner while awake and active and smaller tea to be less likely sitting in your system while the digestive system slows down for sleep

And I'd be intrigued to know how nutritious the veg still is once it's been cooked kept warm transported and placed in a bainmarie/hot serving plate.

Probably not at optimum nutrition Giles but when you're cooking for hundreds you do your best.

I can't get too upset about peas and sweetcorn tbh.

There's always the salad bar, and of course all the fruit and veg you get to give your kids at home.

We are obviously lucky with school meals in my city! They are cooked on site and the veg is fine. Lots of teachers eat the school meals where I am. There are no seconds available, chips are once a week and there is a salad bar option every day. Peas and sweetcorn are counted as a vegetable but I think that's the case in most homes in the country tbh and not something to get worked up about.

It was more a question aimed at those who think school meals are super healthy and not possibly ever related to weight or health problems with children.

they had a very negative affect on my dd

Personally I cannot possibly see how primary school meals are related to weight or health problems, but others' experience of the meals seems rather different. Here they are fairly healthy and small portions, so 5 meals a week isn't going to impact anything like all the stuff children eat at home. School meals are easier to blame though!

Do people cook again for the kids who've had a hot meal in school?

I cook every night. DD decides on the day whether to have a hot or cold meal anyway.

I never did. There was no point. Dd wasn't really hungry. barely managed the half a sandwich and veg sticks that she did get given after.

She also went off alot if foods she had previously liked as a result of bland watery or rank versions served up at school.

How about they provide a decent two course hot meal for the measly pittance people are willing to pay

I still don't get this. Why don't they provide one, better quality and more nutritious course? No one needs pudding every day - and from the sound of these puddings many are empty calories.

Yes. get rid of the bread and the puddings and invest in some higher quality protein.

improve vege options too. ts either cheese or quorn. that's hardly healthy all the time.

And fgs allow a bit of seasoning. There's more salt in sausages and cheese than you'd need to put in another dish. and kids might eat the non processed stuff of it was allowed to have some flavour.

Hi there, I havent read all replies but I would like to just put my opinion across.

Im aware all councils may be different but I used to work in school catering and I must say they are really strict to what goes on the menu. Eg only allowed to serve pastry items once a week, mash/chips etc once a week, chocolate items once a week etc etc. I remember my school dinners and they were horrible I was shocked at how improved they had become.

It is mandatory that each child has to have a main item (eg, sausage) they then have to have a carbohydrate with that and 2 lots of veg or salad that is even if they want it or not. Puddings are usually a choice of an hot puddings, fruit, yoghurt or a muffin/jelly/flapjack etc. The dinner supervisors are made to check everyones plates and I do feel its pretty hard on the children especially key stage 1 to be nagged and nagged to eat Ive seen children in tears nearly every day because been made to eat something they dont like or theyve had enough but they are not allowed to play out unless an attempt has been made to try every item on plate.

What I do with my children each week we look at the menu for the week and we decide which days want to stay for example I have 2 who dont like fish so we avoid any fish days.

I think the school lunches are neither here nor there. This is a child who should be lighter by about 1/3 of her body weight. This has not come about by school lunches in a few months.

School lunches might be part of the problem though, maybe you can address this by talking to the school. I hate the empty plate stickers, our school does them, too. Also, freely available bread- not needed on top of a lunch etc. This would be sorted by packed lunches, but the problem really is much bigger. I say stop them, look at what difference it makes, then address other areas of overeating.

Jassy - I don't really know why school dinners always include a pudding but I would assume that it is something to do with both making them appealing to children and planning a menu that does not exclude food groups and instead includes sugar and fat but in moderation.

Guidelines state that puddings should be dairy or fruit based, and there are also strict guidelines on what % of calories are derived from sugar and fat. Often this means that healthier substitutes are used that the children may be unaware of.

I grew up having puddings at school and my attitude to food is healthy. I think school dinners without the pudding would be pretty joyless tbh.

If parents know that their children are having Apple crumble at lunchtime I would expect them to take that into account when planning the evening meal.

Why would it be joyless?

Surely if removing the puddings meant they could improve the mains then that would still be better than having an egg and sugar free fat free stodgy pudding that's only function is to fill kids up cheaply.

I'm an immigrant (been here a while) and I'm bewildered at what I see every day among British colleagues/friends - that a meal somehow isn't 'complete' without something for pudding. Parents on MN talk about putting something 'for pudding' in their child's packed lunch, for goodness sake.

I'm totally unconvinced that they're necessary at all, or that a meal is 'joyless' unless there's a sweet hit (what are the 'healthier substitutes', out of interest?) at the end. That's quite a fucked up attitude.

It's up there with seeing crisps as part of lunch. I can't get my head aroubd the numcer of colleagues who have crisps as part of their lunch every day, and say 'but that's what crisps are for'.

The guidelines on % from sugar and fat are a red herring. What are the other calories doing? I suspect relatively few are providing any useful nutrition based on menus I've seen and what people have reported here.