Its perfectly acceptable to be rude to religous people...

[startrek90]

Definately going to get flamed here but oh well.

I get the feeling that this is perfectly acceptable to be rude about religous people. From reading the threads on this forum, and my experiences in RL, the amount of rudeness and sometimes plain nastiness is awful.

I am religous. I don't care if people are not, if they go to church or how they live their own lives or raise their children. As far as I am concerned as long as you obey the law, do what you want.

So far I have seen people imply that all religous people are closing their childrens mind, are ignorant, bigots.... its horrible!

I don't deny that there are people who are that way and use religion as an excuse.... but quite frankly you can be ignorant and rude without religion.

I am being unreasonable to be offended, but it really bothers me that its culturally acceptable to be rude to and about people of faith. You wouldn't do it to someone from a different culture or race would you? I have never bothered anyone with my faith so please stop taking it as an insult!

(Just venting, been lambasted in RL for daring to buy my son a Noahs ark toy. I thought it was cute with all the animals etc... but apparently I am raising him to be ignorant, bigoted and stupid. He will hate gay people and women and generally be a horrible person.....apparently grrr )

Striptys and others. Do you think other people with conviction beliefs should not try to convince others of those convictions? Should people not canvass at elections? Should environmentalists/ feminists/ animals rights people/ right to die campaigners, not try to convince others? I only seem to hear this 'you should not try to convince others of your point of view' argument applied to religious groups.
I believe not just in living in a society where people can make their case, but believe the only properly functioning society is where people DO make their case.
How people do that is another matter. You get annoying people in any movement. I have a friend who lost who partner and other friends after becoming a vegan and kept banging on at them about how they should be vegan too long after they said they were not interested. If JW and others keep knocking on your door that is annoying. Why not put up a note telling them not to call at your house? Or ignore the door. That is what we did.

Haha: Ark

Who, those other groups you list have evidence based on research and facts. Religion does not. Being vegan saves the planet. Being religious sets you back.

Sorry Intero but I find that a really weak argument. What you are basically saying is that people are only allowed to make arguments based on the prism through which you think the world should be viewed, that of empiricism. That is not a free society. In a free society people should be free to make arguments on whatever grounds they like. And actually the right to die is a moral argument, veganism is also a moral argument. Religion setting one back is a value based position. People can argue back and forth on all these topics, as they should.

I've never had feminists or environmentalists knocking on my door. Is this a thing they do in other areas?

Signs do not stop religious callers. For a while where I live was a no cold calling zone due to a spate of distraction burglaries, and we were given signs by the police to put on our doors. People selling windows, chuggers etc. all acknowledged this. Religious groups took absolutely no notice until told directly by the village police officer to stop.

I agree with interro. You can argue all you like about things that exist. It's possible to appreciate the evidence behind different points of view. The problem with arguing with the religious is that they will maintain their positions despite the fact that they have no evidence and to give any basis to anyone else's point denies everything within their beliefs. There is no middle ground.

whoishillgirl yes, and it's perfectly acceptable to be rude to anyone who tries to impose their views on you, as you are rude when you ignore the door to the JW.

And in any case no, you should not try and convince others of your beliefs, you can make arguments to change their behaviour to one which is to the society good. (e.g. change their recycling behaviour for environmental reasons) but there is absolutely no reason to change their beliefs. That's the difference in your scenarios, one is changing behaviour, sometimes acceptable for the societal good, the other is trying to change belief, not acceptable, beliefs are private.

Fred, sorry but the distinction you are trying to make between belief and bahaviour is an artificial straw man. Most groups environmentalists, animal fights, feminists and so on are explicitly campaigning to change beliefsin order to change behaviour.
onmag, we obviously have different views about what makes a free society. Carry on believing that free societies have to be conducted on your values alone if you want.
Saskia, the green party have knocked on my door. Anway this is not just about door knocking.throughout this thread people have stated that religious people should not try to convince others of their views. Anyone is allowed to convince others of their view in a free and society.

...even if that convincing is conducted by strapping on a bomb and killing anyone who doesn't believe as you do?

If you need to make out that I condone murder to argue against me that your thought process is bollocks.

Ha! My thought process is bolloxs because I don't believe in a magic being that made the world and watches my every move whilst apparently condoning the murder of innocents every where despite all the evidence to the contrary? I'm fine with that then.

And the earlier post was a question that you've chosen to ignore.

Just in case you respond and I don't reply, I'm going for a shower and lunch, not to church.

" Anyone is allowed to convince others of their view in a free and society."

I agree. An I am allowed to be rude to them if they don't stop when asked, or if they start uninvited.

Yes you are Hakluyt. That is your choice.
One mag, no your thought process is bolLocks because your response to someone arguing that it is good for people to be free to convince others of their arguments is to equate that to supporting murder. That was the answer to your question, it wasn't ignored. would you make a similar argument to someone in the context of being free to argue for Irish nationalism because of the IRA murders? No, because that would be idiocy.
Anyway, this thread has descended into the aforementioned idiocy and have a lot to do so I'm off.

Don't be rude, be funny

'Jehovahs Witness? I didn't see nuffin. And if you know what's good for ya, niver did you!'

a lady came to the door and said

'I want to talk with you about God'

I said

'I'm sorry I'd love to, but I'm expecting a phone call from Him any minute now'

Do you think other people with conviction beliefs should not try to convince others of those convictions?
Should people not canvass at elections?
Hi. I am from X party. We believe in this, this and this. That is what we stand for - if you agree with our policies, please vote for us so we can make the world a better place.

Should environmentalists...
Hi. I campaign on environmental issues. Please turn off the lights when you aren't in a room, use less water, ride a bike rather drive where possible, and ideally, recycle your rubbish, thank you.

feminists...
Hi. I campaign for equality between the sexes. We want equal pay and equal opportunities for men and women. Can you get behind that?

animals rights people...
Hi, I don't support animal experimentation - studies prove that tests carried out on rats have no relation to humans. Please boycott companies that test on animals. I also can prove that you don't need to eat animals in order to live a healthy life - here are some factsheets for you, and some lovely recipe ideas.

right to die campaigners...
Hi. My relative is in a lot of pain, non-stop, and there is no hope whatsoever. Rather than live and die in pain, she would like to end her life mercifully. Her choice. Can you please support our campaign to make euthanasia legal in this country.

religious groups...
Hi. I am a religious person. I have this notion based on nothing whatsoever, other than the fact that my parents believed this and had me indoctrinated from a young age that there is a sky fairy dude who created all things - even evil, suffering, disease and perverts (he apparently can stop these things, but for some reason we are not to question, chooses not to - joker that he is). We are to worship him cos he is the one true god (those other religions are silly, pah, what are they thinking??? OURS is the real god, the right religion), and even though he sent a flood to cruelly wipe out all but a pair of this that and the other animals (plus a few extra for sacrifices), and Noah's family, he's actually a kind and loving god, and I talk to him and he talks to me (sure, if this wasn't a group thing I'd be sectioned!!!), but come on, it's so great, join us, celebrate his goodness (unless you are gay, in which case, go directly to hell). He did send his son to die for us after all, even though his son is actually himself and he could just have said hey humans, I forgive you - I am a forgiving, loving and understanding god after all, but no, he liked a little drama so had himself nailed to a cross. We like to wear these contraptions of death around our necks - they are so pretty, we like to hang images of this death in our buildings as they are nice art, and we like to spend a lot of money on our churches (could be spent on poor people, I guess, but heck, the poor will always be with us, and god helps those who helps themselves). We also stole Xmas from the pagans. Come, worship - he is merciful, he is great. And bottom line, if you don't, you will burn in hell for all eternity.
God bless!
.

Oh, P.S. Being religious doesn't actually change anything. You can still be a good person and do good deeds without it. AND do more constructive things with your Sunday morning.

I can see that a lot of people feel that they have the right to be rude to religious people because of the fact that they themselves have experienced rudeness from religious people. People have had bad experiences of door knocking, being accosted in the street by sandwich boarded naysayers and many seem to have come across some thoroughly unpleasant religious people. But I've come across some thoroughly unpleasant people in general, whether religious or not - just human, and I cannot tar every human person with the same brush because of the ones that have been rude and nasty.

Life is so much better if we can all show respect to one another. I don't go and knock on people's doors as a Christian or shove pamphlets about hell at them because I am uninvited to do so and do not believe in the traditional doctrine of hell and because I hope that I respect people. I want to share my faith, yes. My faith would not be worth a lot if it wasn't worth sharing - to me it is something that enriches my life and so many others that I want others to know that. However, I do not want to force others to know that, and that is where the difference is. I share if invited, if not I do not. I am sad that so many of you have come across these religious people who are so forceful and unpleasant, who tell you they are better than you, who are misogynistic/homophobic etc. :(

I am interested in the posters who say they lose any respect for people who are Christians/religious, especially those who say they think we are deluded/stupid or even that we make dodgy decisions. Do you think that we switch off our brains to believe in God and are unable to think in any kind of rational way because of such belief? So many religious people are also incredibly intelligent. Do they become less intelligent because of belief?

Am I deluding myself? Possibly. I am not of the arrogance to say that I am RIGHT and you are WRONG. I simply experience the love and power of God in my life, as Desperately put so well, and have also come to think that there is a good and robust intellectual position for the Christian faith, for the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. I do not leave my brain at the church door, my faith is interweaved in my life and interweaved with my thinking. But no doubt that's where it falls down, for how can my thinking be in any way rational if in any way tied up with faith? In the end, it will never be enough, I realise this, but like Desperately, I find God is so much here that I cannot deny it.

Interrobang absolutely spot on

Genuine question: do different religions believe that their God exists but that gods of different religions don't? Or do they believe that all the gods exist and just choose to follow theirs?

"I simply experience the love and power of God in my life, as Desperately put so well"

Absolutely fine- that's your experience, which you are of course entitled to live by.

"and have also come to think that there is a good and robust intellectual position for the Christian faith, for the life, death and resurrection of Jesus."

Not fine-there most definitely isn't. There isn't even any academic certainty about the existence of Jesus as a historical figure.

Lols Haklyut apart from the fact the Romans wrote about him an all that

Well, Tacitus did, in passing. In a manuscript written over 100 years later and of which no original copy exists.

Mind you, most academics do think there was probably somebody called Jesus round about then. But only really on the balance of probabilities. No actual concrete proof.

Quick google search there by any chance.

It is also widely believed to be historically accurate and he was by no means a Christ supporter so thereby making it more likely to be accurate.

But you know continue to spout things you have never studied