Its perfectly acceptable to be rude to religous people...

[startrek90]

Definately going to get flamed here but oh well.

I get the feeling that this is perfectly acceptable to be rude about religous people. From reading the threads on this forum, and my experiences in RL, the amount of rudeness and sometimes plain nastiness is awful.

I am religous. I don't care if people are not, if they go to church or how they live their own lives or raise their children. As far as I am concerned as long as you obey the law, do what you want.

So far I have seen people imply that all religous people are closing their childrens mind, are ignorant, bigots.... its horrible!

I don't deny that there are people who are that way and use religion as an excuse.... but quite frankly you can be ignorant and rude without religion.

I am being unreasonable to be offended, but it really bothers me that its culturally acceptable to be rude to and about people of faith. You wouldn't do it to someone from a different culture or race would you? I have never bothered anyone with my faith so please stop taking it as an insult!

(Just venting, been lambasted in RL for daring to buy my son a Noahs ark toy. I thought it was cute with all the animals etc... but apparently I am raising him to be ignorant, bigoted and stupid. He will hate gay people and women and generally be a horrible person.....apparently grrr )

Errol, it struck me after reading Hakluyt's dismissal of my post illustrating the rudeness towards individual Christians up to Saturday (there is more from subsequent days but MN has a words per post limit) that some people are well able to dish it but not too happy to take it, and Hakluyt proved me absolutely correct.

So thank you Hakluyt. (I hope you are taking Caffe's excellent advice.)

LePetit well, as a Christian, I would challenge that 'church' school. I would not term their behaviour as Christian.

LePetit' Any political parties pushing secular education?' - Seemed to me the Greens might, bless 'em, their policies are here - see sections ED174 -176 . Haven't looked at any of the others but somehow I doubt it.

How about unicorns with glittery toenails in the frozen wastes of Siberia?

the commie bastards were faith filled fanatics after all. Zealots you might say

The man with bloodiest hands, Stalin, trained as an Orthodox priest. Probably learnt all he need to know about human nature in the seminary.

Surely you knew that already, math?

I was just wondering, math, who died and made you the boss of everyone?

I made the point about Christians because someone else was saying that Christians in particular were getting picked in.

Your second point is confusing - we have beliefs that mean we make plans but these are based on evidence, probability and extrapolation. Which doesn't mean we can't be wrong, but they are based on something. For example the evidence suggests I won't die today tonight and that my place of work will be in the same place, so I plan to get up and go to work.

TheCatAteMyTaxReturn you are entirely wrong about the killing of Christians in the Soviet Union. The Communist Party set up an organisation called The League of Militant Atheists to exterminate religion in all its forms, including murdering Christians -- over 100,000 priests were shot.

Stalinism functions as a religion. So does football TBH: the obsession with what is essentially pointless, the blind tribal loyalty...

And people keep on about the importance of respecting 'sincerely held beliefs.' The fact that a belief is sincerely held doesn't stop it being bullshit or, indeed, harmful bullshit. Some people sincerely believe that certain ethnic groups are inherently, biologically inferior to others. Some men sincerely believe that their wives and children are their possessions rather than autonymous human beings. If someone airs a sincerely held belief that's a crock of shit in conversation, you may well choose not to challenge it (because you don't have time to get into an in-depth discussion/having a disagreement will disrupt whatever event you have encountered this person during/telling the person that you disagree may put you at risk of harm - whether that's job loss or actually being punched in the face) but if you decide not to allow this person to carry on spouting bullshit unquestioned, you're not infringing his/her human rights by disagreeing.

Unfortunately, as long as people interested in secularism are confounded with the militant atheism so succinctly expressed by Penn Jillette, secularism will be too hot a potato for major parties to handle.

And as long as people who are hurt by the current joining at the hip of church and state are too lazy and lacking in will to do anything more than vent their spleen at individual believers, political organisation is going to fall by the wayside.

'ED174 At the same time we will abolish the requirement for a compulsory daily act of worship. Schools which choose to continue to hold acts of worship will provide an alternative activity for learners who choose not to take part. Pupils who do not participate in worship will not suffer any form of discrimination.

ED175 Religious instruction, as distinct from religious education in understanding different religions may only take place outside of school curriculum time.

ED176 No publicly-funded school shall be run by a religious organisation. Schools may teach about religions, comparing examples which originated in each continent, but are prohibited from delivering religious instruction in any form or encouraging adherence to any particular religious belief.'

Is anyone prepared to put their money where their mouth is?

Yeah right, SGB.

So does getting your nails and horn done in glittery polish.

OMG, TheCat?

Stalin was a priest all along?

You crack me up.

Your second point is confusing - we have beliefs that mean we make plans but these are based on evidence, probability and extrapolation. Which doesn't mean we can't be wrong, but they are based on something. For example the evidence suggests I won't die today tonight and that my place of work will be in the same place, so I plan to get up and go to work.

Christianity is not based on nothing! There is evidence. Not the conclusive kind perhaps, but it is there. There is no conclusive evidence to form the basis for our plan making either, hence the attempts at calculating probabilities and extrapolation.

A big ner ner right back atcha, Hakluyt.

How is that list coming along? I can't wait to see it and dismiss it immediately.

Stalin trained as one, yes, did you not know?

Did you think all communists emerge from the womb fully fledged as atheists?

What list? Do you mean this list I posted ages ago?
"Math. Easy. You to me 20.00. You to me 20.02. You to me 21.45.

Bigoted dumbfucks is rude"

You must have missed it.

Now can I have a list of 3 times I've been rude? While we're playing your incomprehensible game?

Who is Penn Jillette?

Niminy's post is a sobering reminder of the reality of what 'militant atheism' was. It really doesn't exist in the UK today (nor does 'militant secularism') - they're just bogeyman words used by various people who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo nowadays.

Christianity is not based on nothing!

You are right there - its based on ignorance, as are all organised religions

A kind of half-educated ignorance that believes one explanation is sufficient, and other need not be explored, and those that are explored are subordinate to the ineffable creator god, whom requires no explanation beyond that recorded in bronze-age or iron-age myth.

Some of us have grown out of Father Christmas, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy.

And God

"Christianity is not based on nothing! There is evidence."

Evidence of what?

I would say that the evidence for the beliefs that drive making plans is a lot stronger than any for god. A hell of a lot stronger! Yes we use extrapolation but that's because we can't see into the future, not because the evidence isn't there that, for example, a tourist destination we plan to visit exists.

I don't think the culture of Christianity is based in nothing, and I think there are good explanations for why humans have religion, but I do think there is basically nothing credible that supports the idea of god and his powers etc. but I'm happy to be enlightened!

TheCat: Stalin attended a seminary, but he was expelled from it. Obviously he wasn't that devout!

"Did you think all communists emerge from the womb fully fledged as atheists?"

That's interesting. Normally atheists claim that everyone's default option is atheist.

Just out of interest does anybody know who we could complain to and would we have grounds or is the HT correct ie they are a church school so tough shit?

TheCat ignorance differs from faith in that people of ignorance are exercising beliefs subconsciously, lacking knowledge that they are acting on beliefs. People of faith acknowledge they are exercising beliefs which they have not seen conclusive evidence or proof for.

LePetit Ofsted, regarding discipline policy.

math - some of us do engage with secularist campaigns rather than just whinging on MN, you know.

I'll take this opportunity to make sure anyone on this thread who's affected by issues of non-secularity (esp relating to schools) knows about the Fair Admissions Campaign and The Accord Coalition. Also you may find helpful advice from the BHA and of course the NSS.