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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

aibu re dh, ILs and church

85 replies

Holden10 · 19/03/2015 10:41

DH and his parents and brother are very religious and attend church weekly. I was born into this religion but felt very open minded about my own beliefs. When I met dh, he neglected to tell me he was a church goer and I had to find out from his drunken DM one night 'he hasn't been to church with us once since he met you...' I was as although not a church goer myself I certainly have no issue with anyone else going! After a while of him going alone he asked me to go with him as a one off. Then we got engaged and he wanted to marry in this church so we 'had to go every week just until we are married'. Fast forward a year and I have got myself stuck in a cycle where we go once every two weeks, with his family. This whole process has made me realise I am completely atheist and do not want to attend church any longer. It is totally not my thing and I disbelieve the whole lot. That is a personal view though and I don't have a problem with dh going to church. Aibu to tell him I just don't want to go anymore? He is a dream and is very unlikely to be upset by this, as he knows I wasnt religious to start with. His family would really be peeved though! Possibly relevant, I am 30 weeks pg and whilst happy for baby to be baptised into this religion I certainly won't be dragging myself and a newborn baby to church week on week... I am desperate for some perspective on this. Thanks for reading!!

OP posts:

Original poster

Holden10 · 20/03/2015 10:28

The funny thing is we are both scientists. dh is quite high up in his very scientific profession (Stealth boast ) yet he still possesses faith in a god. Can't quite work out why but faith is personal so I don't question it. Plus he sees the church going as a nice thing to do with his parents and sibling but myself, I find it a bore and a drag and hypocritical! My next question for you would be, any idea how I cope with the inevitable 'why don't you come to church anymore Holden' from his parents?

OP posts:

Hakluyt · 20/03/2015 10:33

"Because I am an atheist"

Repeat on a loop.

OodlesofBoodles · 20/03/2015 10:34

"Faith is personal so i don't question it"

Excellent scientist.

Paintedpinksapphires · 20/03/2015 10:35

Holden just tell them faith is a journey not a destination. Say that at this point in your life you don't believe in God, and prefer not to come to church. Ask them to respect your decision on this.

If you and your DH have agreed that children will attend while they are young, I don't see that they can have any basis for objecting.

Original poster

Holden10 · 20/03/2015 10:36

I don't question my dh's motivations because he can do as he pleases. I am a damn good scientist but that's not the point here!

OP posts:

OodlesofBoodles · 20/03/2015 10:41

Perhaps you should do as you damn well please and not pander to his beliefs or his family's. I really don't think you're being unreasonable not to want to go, you don't believe, why should you attend.

BackforGood · 20/03/2015 10:43

Well a good scientist would have a mind open to all posssibilities, so thats not a great argument from those saying it.
It's the old argument that science can't prove that darkness exists - only by talking about the absence of light. Etc.

Also, I'm confused by all those saying op shouldnt "make" her dc go to Church
My dc have always enjoyed going to church - the activities, the friendships, the sense of community. They are all teens and still choose to go to church - there's no "making" involved.

gotthemoononastick · 20/03/2015 10:44

How could you then be 'happy with a show Baptism',OP, if you feel like this.

Unfortunately the deceit started with 'go every week just until we are married.

I could not have done this as I would have had grave doubts about his honourabilty.

sourpotato · 20/03/2015 10:45

Believing in something more powerful than science doesn't mean you don't believe in science.

OP, just tell them that it's because you don't believe in God. Don't feel you need to come across as apologetic about it.

Hakluyt · 20/03/2015 10:46

How can anything be "more powerful than science"?

OodlesofBoodles · 20/03/2015 10:52

Religion goes back to the days when we knew nothing and people filled in the gaps with all sorts of wild and crazy explanations. Science has filled an awful lot of those gaps in and as humans we can't possibly know everything but we know a hell of a lot more than we did a mere 2000 years ago. i don't see how religion has any place in modern society except that some people like it but they don't want to test it or push it because they're scared of finding out it's a bunch of outdated, impossible stories.

Science trumps religion - every time.

niminypiminy · 20/03/2015 10:55

"How can anything be "more powerful than science"?"

And right there, we have an example of what unquestioning belief, not to say dogma, looks like.

The 'power of science' is extremely context specific. In the sphere of human behaviour there are lots of things more powerful than science - ethics and law, for example. Science is really, really good at what it does - at describing and understanding the functioning of the natural world. It's really useless at a load of other things.

OodlesofBoodles · 20/03/2015 10:56

Really

sourpotato · 20/03/2015 11:00

I have no idea, Hakluyt. I'm certainly not arguing that God exists, and it's not a debate I'm particularly interested in. I'm just pointing out that believing in science (and being very good at understanding its laws - i.e. being a 'good scientist') and having faith in something 'supernatural' are not mutually exclusive, which is what some previous posts seem to have implied.

niminypiminy · 20/03/2015 11:03

"i don't see how religion has any place in modern society except that some people like it but they don't want to test it or push it because they're scared of finding out it's a bunch of outdated, impossible stories. "

This is another example of an unquestioning belief in dogma. There are, and have been lots of scientists who are religious - for example Georges Lemaitre, who first proposed what has come to be known as the Big Bang.

Most Christians see no conflict between religion and science -- it's mostly atheists who have this idea that science can answer every question and tell us how to live our lives. But it can't. Science is really very limited in what it can tell us about the big questions - why am I me, how can I live with meaning and purpose, why do bad things happen, why do things happen at all, why are some things beautiful ... and many, many more. Science just can't answer these questions, and why should it?

OodlesofBoodles · 20/03/2015 11:08

Science can test theories. Religion is just about acceptance and social control.

niminypiminy · 20/03/2015 11:14

"Religion is just about acceptance and social control."

I give you Eugenics, and Oscar Romero, as just two examples of the way that science has lent itself to really vile methods of social control and of the way that religion has been a force for questioning and the fight against injustice.

Jux · 20/03/2015 11:20

Sorry, but he'll have the option to carry on in his dad's faith without baptism, too. That's the point.

Hakluyt · 20/03/2015 11:23

"In the sphere of human behaviour there are lots of things more powerful than science - ethics and law, for example."

Really? Ethics and law are entirely subjective, and depend entirely on people's willingness to conform to them- or on the degree of coercion applied to them to make them conform.

niminypiminy · 20/03/2015 11:35

"Ethics and law are entirely subjective"

Well, that depends on your point of view. Proponents of natural law such as Locke, for example, or deontological ethics such as Kant would see both law and ethics as based on a priori principles that exist independently of any person or situation.

But in any case, in what way does 'science' have power over human behaviour that does not depend on willingness to conform or coercion?

Paintedpinksapphires · 20/03/2015 12:18

Oodles science is used for 'social control too' there are many threads on Mumsnet are discussing the outcome of the latest scientific research. Research which we use to control what people eat, drink, how we travel, how we work, how we educate our children or organise our family structures.

I'm not for one moment saying it's wrong but it is control.

By the way religion isn't about acceptance. You are meant to struggle, search and reflect.

loveareadingthanks · 20/03/2015 12:20

''My next question for you would be, any idea how I cope with the inevitable 'why don't you come to church anymore Holden' from his parents?'

I'm no longer a Christian
I'm an atheist now
I don't hold those beliefs any more
It's not my religion any more
My beliefs are different to yours now

Then Biiiig smile and change the subject if you think they are going to nag at you.

If they do nag at you -

I don't really want to discuss this
We have to agree to disagree about this
My beliefs are my business
Let's make a deal, I won't try to persuade you not to go to church, you don't try to persuade me to go.

Sethspeaks · 20/03/2015 12:29

Re in laws reaction - all or any of what loveareading says on a loop!

Original poster

Holden10 · 20/03/2015 12:29

I should have anticipated this becoming a science/religion debate.

Loveareadingthanks - your suggestions are brill. Thank you.
and thanks to the posters who have given advice to a similar tune :) I'm a bit terrible at confrontation so I'm scared of it turning into a fight but I know I'm entitled to my own beliefs and my own business, so thanks all :)

OP posts:

Paintedpinksapphires · 20/03/2015 12:49

If you really want to avoid a fight could you blame it in your pregnancy? Say it is because you need extra sleep or feel dizzy with all the standing up and sitting down.

You probably won't be able to go with a brand new baby either and by that time they'll be used to you not coming. At the very least it's put off an argument.

Alternatively get your DH to broach it with them and tell them not up bother you.

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