to just walk away from a brewing row on here, with a "fuck OFF"?

[BluebellBean]

Poster asks for advice re child in her dd's class who is struggling and can get violent. Posters advise. Of COURSE an "ADHD isn't real" poster comes along

I am too tired to bloody argue and try to explain and educate this idiot.

Feel a bit like I'm copping out but experience has shown that some fools will never learn

^Never said ADHD doesnt exist I said it didn't exist years ago. And now it seems every child who misbehaves in school has it

Both demonstrably totally untrue assertions.

Proud, the fact that the boy with ADHD is getting support in school doesn't mean that support is being denied to your child. You need to focus your efforts on getting her that support, not resenting the fact that other children have it.

wherethewildthingis, it's a basic premise in law that all children have the right to be educated in the mainstream unless that would prejudice the efficient education of other children, and unless there are no adjustments that can be made that would remedy that prejudice. It's been made very very clear by the courts that cost should not be a barrier to making such adjustments - i.e. that the necessary resources just have to be put in by the council. So lack of resources should never be a reason for failing to manage a child's needs safely

I had a related conversation with DD yesterday, after she was swiped with a stick by a boy in her year. Asked if she'd reported it, she said, 'No, because I've been watching him and I'm sure he has autism or ADHD or something so telling him off won't help.' (Both are pretty prevalent in our family, so she was matter of fact about it, though quite possibly wrong, of course.)

I've told her to make sure she does report it for both their sakes. If he needs more supervision at break, the school need to know that. And if he's just being a toad, well, they need to know that too!

Of course it existed years ago. Not having a name for something doesn't mean it didn't exist.

There was a time there was no name for autism. People still had it. We went through all this shit with that too. Autism isn't real, it's just an excuse for bad behaviour, no such thing as autism in my day we just gave them a clip round the ear blah blah blah.

Ever seen a scan of the brain of someone with adhd next to a scan of the brain of someone without?

www.nhs.uk/news/2014/09September/Pages/Brain-scans-offer-clues-into-ADHD.aspx

www.healthline.com/health/adhd/brain-scans#Results4

It is ludicrous to suggest that a condition does not exist just because it hasn't been given a name yet, or that naming something makes it exist when it otherwise wouldn't.

All children have the right to live in the same world. The days of putting inconvenient people away and keeping them separated from the main population are gone and thank fuck for that!

If a school is not managing someone's needs appropriately and because of that a child is put in a position where they are able to lash out or behave in ways that are challenging then the school is failing both the child with the needs and the children who are affected by that failure to meet the child's needs. It is a support and training issue. Segregation is not the answer. That's just lazy. Let's not put the training and resources in, let's just boot them out and stick them somewhere else.

No thank you.

Do any of the people blithely saying that a problematic child should not be in mainstream/should be at a special school have the slightest idea how very little special provision there is, how many parents would prefer special school for their child with SEN to keep their child safe and how incredibly expensive it is?

My son is attending a special school. He is incredibly lucky. It is simply not an option available to most.

Morning everyone,

Thank you for all your reports about this thread, and the other one. We can see that there are quite a lot of disability myths flying around - so we're going to take a good look at both threads, and delete any posts that are disablist, or against our talk guidelines, and take further action with posters as necessary.

We've had a couple of reports saying that this is a TAAT, which is sort of is, but we can see that a very legitimate discussion has sprung up, and it doesn't seem right to get rid of it. However, we would ask that folks try not to turn it into a rehash of the other thread. If it looks like things are going pear shaped, then we might have to take another look and reconsider.

As ever, please do report anything you'd like us to take a closer look at

You're right ADHD didn't exist years ago, much the same as epilepsy/Down syndrome and even cancer.

Just because it wasn't a named condition years ago doesn't mean it didn't exist it means that there was no knowledge of it.

Until EEG technology it was thought people with epilepsy were possessed.

Until genome mapping babies with Down syndrome we're thought to be demons who had replaced a 'healthy' baby as a punishment by the gods, so were killed at birth.

Until operations and autopsies cancer didn't exist, there is a story of a courtian in queen Victorias reign who developed a 'pregnant' bump, she was in married and shamed beyond belief, disowned and disinherited. When she died alone she was cut open to remove the foetus for burial and they found a huge tumour which was her cause of death.

The moral, a condition without a name is still a condition.

*unmarried

Until genome mapping babies with Down syndrome we're thought to be demons who had replaced a 'healthy' baby as a punishment by the gods, so were killed at birth. Well, no, I don't think we were doing this up to the 1990s!

Didn't Charles Darwin have a much-loved son with (probable) Down syndrome? And there was an interesting article last year about paintings showing people at court with characteristics of Down's. Probably the world has always had its share of the intolerant and the humane, whatever the condition they were looking at.

I'm talking Grecian age not the 90's.

I've always found that it's those with the most ignorance that are the least tolerant.

But I do agree with your main point, Skeeter, that a condition is still there before it has a name.

Yep, I was just baulking at the idea of ancient genome mapping!

when will people learn that its not the end of the world if people have different opinions

and that its never, ever, ever black and white

and there is probably a grain of truth and validity in BOTH opinions

AND- for fucks sake dont get upset, and start threads about it! If it upsets you hide thread, and do something better instead, plant seeds! walk! work!

toxic otherwise

Until EEG technology it was thought people with epilepsy were possessed.

Not by everyone.Epilepsy was written about as early as 2000 BC (contrary to the idea that epilepsy didnt used to exist, even the word is from the ancient greek term). Hippocrates stated in the 5th century BC that epilepsy had nothing divine or demonic about it, that it was a disease of the brain, had hereditary characteristics, and could sometimes be controlled with fasting (true).

wow can\t believe mn h . they seem to have forgotten their own campaign.

That's extraordinary, Madreloco. Any idea how he worked that out?

I think you aren't being unreasonable to walk away from a thread because you are frustrated with the views being expressed, I think you are being unreasonable to then go and start another thread about this. I haven't been on the other thread and don't know what is being said but I think calling another poster an idiot and a fool is unreasonable too. There is a lot of debate within the scientific community as to whether ADHD is a valid diagnosis and it's unfair to dismiss anyone who holds a different view as disabilist or an idiot who needs educating. Personally I do think there are biological underpinnings of ADHD and that it is not just patterns of behaviour arising from poor or inconsistent parenting but I also think diagnosis is not always clear or helpful.

Donning my hard hat here. I believe ADHD exists. I also believe that a small proportion of parents try and use ADHD etc as an excuse for their darling childs awful behaviour, and these people are the ones giving the genuine children with problems a bad name.

I wish I could get a place in a special school for my dd. the poster saying kids should be in special schools obviously have no idea how hard it is to get your child a place in one. My dd is not coping in mainstream but we will probably have to fight for years before she gets the right provision. There are too many kids and not enough schools there is one in the city I live in which would meet her needs its ridiculous!

My DH was diagnosed by honest to God professionals who knew what they were talking about and who his parents travelled 500 miles from aiming town to see with ADHD and learning disabilities more than 40 years ago. Back when they didn't exist.

Unfortunately, when he returned to his little town, the Head figured he knew more than the professionals and all their intensive testing and disregarded everything (sound similar to internet professionals and their selective article reading?).

DH eventually left school without completing it with the drilled in knowledge that he was daft and incapable of learning.

*they travelled from a MINING town. Not sure what/where aiming town is, but auto correct seems to know...

Lance, just logical deduction and observation, I think? Hippocrates believed in the Four Humours theory of the body, and thought that epilepsy was caused by build ups of cold fluids in the brain.

He said: “People think that epilepsy is divine simply because they don't have any idea what causes epilepsy. But I believe that someday we will understand what causes epilepsy, and at that moment, we will cease to believe that it's divine. And so it is with everything in the universe”

DD1 is 13, has ADHD, is on medication and is on the SEN register. I would love for her to be in a tiny, lovely, inclusive 'special' school, instead of a huge all-girls secondary where she is often treated with impatience and disdain by teachers and students alike. She is always getting detentions, is blamed for starting arguments, is shunned for interrupting conversations etc. It feels like I'm sending her to a job she hates with unfriendly workmates every day.

I don't suppose there is a thread for parents of teenagers with ADHD is there?! If it really exists of course.

Using the logic that ADHD didn't exist years ago......the same must apply to dinosaurs surely? Til we gave them a name, they didn't exist?
Also, (mentioned further upthread) the wee boy who was abandoned by his mum and has problems now with behaviour, there is a possibility he has attachment disorder. He probably was badly treated/ignored by a mum who wanted a girl. RAD is also very real despite its newness.