AIBUto think it's actually more impossible to work full time with teenagers than younger children?

[bbcessex]

Just that really. I work (more than) full time; I have a high profile role in my area of specialism.. I work long hours, I travel, I have a lot of tight deadlines etc. I am fortunate because I can to a large degree dictate my own schedule, and I can work from pretty much anywhere.. I have very much a role measured on success rather than input (although it needs a lot of input to be successful).

I've seen a number of threads on MN recently that have made me realise that maybe I'm not alone in thinking that it actually gets harder to hold down a demanding job when your DC are older...yet every headline or article on the 'working mum / parent' front seems to centre around availability of childcare / cost of childcare / guilt about 'leaving' your children etc. etc.

I've never once seriously thought about cutting back or stopping work before; but my DC are 15 and 13 now and I'm currently dropping the ball in numerous areas.. none of which I've done when they were younger and it IS all child-related stuff.. I've always been fortunate enough to be able to pay for the exact sort of childcare I wanted.. but now - I don't really need 'childcare' and I should be experiencing some 'freedom' at this stage - or at least I thought.. but looking back, when then most stressful part of my day was getting to the nursery by 6om and getting them into bed by 7pm, I'm thinking that those were the golden years!

AIBU to think that actually - it's much, much harder to work long hours in a demanding role when your DC are revising / taking exams / needing you to push them / arrange tutors / challenge them / cajole them / threaten them! / console them.. none of this can really be done by a childminder / nanny / third party..

AIBU? or am I doing it wrong? HELP!

All theses self satisfied parents with perfect teenagers , who are perfectly independent .Its a bit like early toilet training or sleeping through the night , it's largely down to the luck of your child's personally and natural resilience

I was of the benign neglect philosophy my dc 1 was to all appearances very mature , very independent , I worked pretty full time with two younger ones etc etc .Until one day I discovered that he was on anti depressants , that it was all a cover .How I wish I had put two and two together and made four and not five .

Yesterday I bumped into all old friend with two teens , she has just take a break from work , her daughter has anorexia and is self harming , on the surface you would never guess, a charming high achieving independent young woman .

In our social circle there is barely a family who is untouched by mental illness, drugs ,anxiety etc, I am struggling with the fact that actually I only know 2 families who are untouched and In both cases the mothers were SAHM , I thought I was setting a good example working but now I am wondering if I let them down .I am by no means a helicopter parent but I am more watchful and probably a bit more present , although I do work and am contemplating an MA.My Dh is certainly more present he was never here , he is noticeably more present in our lives

So to all of you who have easy teens , thank your lucky stars because until you have no idea how quickly things can turn and don't belittle those of us who need to emotionally support our teens more because they are not blessed with those skills naturally

Ragwort

I agree with you.
I tell my kids "yes it's your life but it is my responsibility, at least it is until you are 18.
I appreciate you want to do what you want to do, but I can not allow you for that choice to be doing nothing"

yes they needed nagging and checking on even if they are smart and doing well because they are still children. I have good faith they will do what they need to do but I won't trust them 100%.
yes they can miss the bus and learn the consequences but some bad decisions or mistakes can have a very detrimental effect and there's no way I will just stand there and watch it happen.
you must be there to catch them when they fall

outolunchagain - I agree with you that adolescent MH issues are rife and often well-hidden until they are pretty bad and hard to treat.

DC these days lead complicated lives with massive societal and familial expectations. They need parents who are available to talk through problems and help identify solutions as issues arise. Offloading several times a day is the single most protective action anyone of any age can take for their MH. If parents aren't around to offload onto, adolescent anxiety can build up fast and furiously.

Outtolunch - you make some valid points. I think some people on this thread are thinking helicopter parenting and being there to provide emotional support are one and the same thing. They're not. And just because some teenagers are able to get through those difficult years without much support and still turn out ok with no lasting issues, is very lucky. I wish your DS good health in the future.

outtolunch you really shouldn't blame yourself.

Mental health is so complex. The causes so varied. The reality is that the DC of the most watchful parents may still suffer, where the DC of the least watchful can wander through life unscathed.

Predisposition is a huge factor ( as in physical health) and there's not a lot any of is can do about that.

misslivvy I think those of us who have said we are able to work with teens without too many problems probably are vigilant and present.

It's probably more that our work, our family set up and the convenience of where we live makes life easier.

Totally agree outtolunchagain and Bonsoir.

One of the reasons I didn't want my DC to board was because I want to DH and I to quietly keep an eye out for a variety of things.

This thread really points to the one thing that Mothers (and Fathers) require to parent well and that is workplace flexibility.

You don't need to be a SAHM but you do need to be present a reasonable amount. Its important to have that breakfast time, go for those coffees, go for a cycle etc throughout the week so that you are not ships passing in the night.

I think its fair to say that leaving before children wake up and getting home after 6pm is not ideal at any age but it is the economic reality for many families.

We are vigilant and look out for things but not on the quiet! When DSS1 was a young teen I bought a book about parenting teens that told me I should expect him to retreat to his room and not talk to us. The very reverse happened: DSS1 got ever more talkative as his teenaged years progressed. He never stopped talking (he would wait outside the door of the loo where DP had hidden for some peace and quiet). I can confirm that this was excellent for DSS1's MH if somewhat draining for us

I really dont know how 2 parents work full time these days without a background of help, or the money to pay for the help

whatever the age of your kids..

Neither of mine have ever reached the hiding in their room and saying nothing stage.

DH and I dropped DD at school today and she gabbed all the way! When she got out we looked at one another and turned on the radio !

oh we're there, with bells on

tha'ts why I value being at home more, there's a bit more chance of getting an odd word from ds only because I'm actually here

MissLivvy

to illustrate your point I must state that my mum is the quintessential helicopter parent/grandparent.
she is rubbish at emotional support, in fact tends to make things worse.

outtolunch you make some great points about mental health..I hope your DC is on an even keel now.

It’s been really cathartic ‘talking’ about this topic on here. It’s not something I ever talk about in real life; at work it’s essential to present the aura of being focused and driven (which I historically have been) and at home, it seems churlish to grumble when fundamentally I realise I’m in a pretty privileged position.

I hope I haven't given the impression that I think being the working parent of children of any age is easy - it certainly isn't. I do appreciate the ability to go out for dinner with my DC without anyone refusing to get in / out of their chair or needing a poo the minute the food arrives .

My point was centred around my expectations.. I had planned to be more focussed on work and less 'needed' at this stage.. and that's not been my experience.

I am reassured to see that I’m not the only one having a crisis of conscience and/or finding it hard, and hats off to those of you that don’t find it so hard for whatever reason.

I don't want to stop working; I love my job and fought tooth & nail to get where I am, but I think right now I do need to strike a little more balance to be able to focus on teen-issues whenever they arise. I shall certainly be having a ponder and will attempt to implement the aspects of your comments that might fit for my family.

Children who can do well in life are resilient, strong, stoic, mentally and physically fit. It is no accident my chidlren are like this. It is because they made their way on public transport at night when helicoptered friends of theirs had a parent waiting up to collect them. They got themselves out of scrapes. They learned to cook, to look after themselves. Teenagers can be difficult because they are breaking away. If you don't let them break away to independence then you are keeping them as kidults for life. I am not saying don't keep an eye out for a problem.

Also they tend ultimately to mirror their parents. No matter how much your parents might fuck you up they do tend to be like you - so be that person, don't be off sick, be strong, put up with difficult things, be kind to others and all the rest so that they mirror how you are. If the parents work hard the children usually do.

As for whether having a stay at home parents makes you less likely to get anorexia I very much doubt that that is so. It is a complex condition with the highest death rate of all mental illnesses. Sometimes if the parents had it the child will so there may be a genetic or copying component so those of us more than happy to eat big meals can do so safe in the knowledge that might well do our children good..... eat away for the sake of your child's mental health... although of course eating junk food and drinking makes you depressed and sad and fed up at all ages so if you eat well healthily all will be well.

Jilly - I completely agree with your view that children or adults of any age need those skills to progress in and through life.

I don't think your children got them by not being ferried around though!!! I think that's unnecessarily harsh if you were able to do it.. why should anyone do a complex journey via public transport IF there was a more efficient option available?? Seems quite mad to me..

I agree with your view on being able to cook, do laundry and all of those aspects though, and I will certainly be looking to implement more along those lines.

I think the details of the routine life skills you require your DC to learn are dependent on circumstance. My DSSs have been ace with public transport since they were 11 or so, by virtue of the fact that we have fabulous and cheap public transport all around us. Laundry and to an even greater extent catering were almost uncharted territory yet DSS1 had zero issues with laundry and catering when he went to university: he knew what daily clean clothes and balanced meals looked like after years of indoctrination and he reproduced those things on his own with no difficulty at all. He even, to our surprise, instigated and managed his shared flat's cleaning rota. This from someone who doesn't know where to find the vacuum cleaner at home.

I noticed a huge difference in my DC the moment we started spending part of our week in London.

It's just so much easier to be independent there.

I notice a big difference too between DS' mates, at school in London, and DD's mates at school in the HC.

I also notice a big difference in the parents and their expectations of indepnednece. Too many of the later seem to assume that parents of teens are willing and able to act as drivers, that no one works or has any commitments which might prevent them being available at any time of day or night.

Reliable public transport gives DC incredible independence, that's for sure. As does having places to go and meet friends that don't require any parental input - cinemas, tennis clubs or whatever.

I think the 1980s (1970s in my case!) hands-off parental approach to school work can work well or can be crap: all depends on the individual pupil. It was fine for me, DH, DSIS and my two best friends who didn't really need any help. It was not so good for DBIL and most of my cousins who lacked direction and all left school with just a couple of O levels despite being bright.

As far as my own DCs go, DS1 and DS2 are pretty academically able but not well organised or hugely motivated. They certainly benefit from a bit of guidance and cracking of the whip. Happily DS1 has got into a top 20 university, but wouldn't have done so left entirely to his own devices. During his gap year where he's working a lot, studying a lot, and travelling a bit, he's matured enormously and I'm sure will cope well next year.

DS3 has mild AEN. With no extra help (like many of the other kids in his sets at school), he'd probably get two GCSEs and go on to a vocational course. With the support he gets from me and from external tutors, he should get six or seven GCSEs and go into sixth form to study the arty A levels that he loves, and then build a career in that field. And yes, I do know the name of his teachers and I do know the course content for his subjects because I have to. It is time-consuming, but I hope it will help him achieve his potential.

Definitely agree that it's a lot easier for kids to be independent in a city with good public transport and/or things to do within walking/cycling distance.

It was definitely a factor in us buying where we did: the sports centre with gym/pool/climbing wall/tennis is literally at the end of our road, there's Scouts etc. nearby, and there's a frequent bus service to the city centre for cinema, music school, etc.

Thanks for that Jilly , if I did't feel it was my fault before. I certainly do now , clearly My child must have a problem because we live in an area with no public transport and obviously he must have inherited any weaknesses from me .

Actually I was supremely under parented and managed to have a successful life but you just stick to your belief that your children are resilient and stoic and capable because you made them like that and mine are not because somehow it was a failure to not make them take public transport , something that all of them have worked out pretty easily because it's not rocket science is it

Also, does no-one else have teenagers who are party animals? DS1 (19) and DS2 (17) have been for a few years and I find that involves a lot of emotional energy. I was smiling at a PP who said you must go to sleep when they're out. None of my friends or I can settle till their DCs are in at 1.30 or whatever after a party, or 3.30 for the older ones who go clubbing.

Here in the South West it's quite a druggy culture as well. The kids that take MD and ketamine every weekend come from families with a variety of parenting styles, from the most laid-back to the most strict. So I don't believe you can congratulate yourself if you escape scot free: it's mainly down to the personality of your child and their peer group rather than your own magic parenting formula. One of the local "benign neglect" mothers has a DS who's 16 who is going into rehab next week for the third time. His elder brother is a high achiever and squeaky clean.

Children who can do well in life are resilient, strong, stoic, mentally and physically fit. It is no accident my children are like this.

Erm, yes it is. You're bloody lucky that your children have no birth injuries, no mental illness, no joint problems, no SEN.

Outotlunch, if it's any help, I am a semi-at-home parent; which was useful for taking DS to his psychiatric appointments, but bugger all use in preventing the need for them.