to be kinda proud that Katie Hopkins and Owen Jones have blocked me on twitter, without me saying anything offensive

[yewbeeches]

Just noticed this, I've been blocked by a right and left idiot. I'm sure I didn't say anything offensive as I have a few RL friends on twitter so don't treat it as annon. I just argued with some of their ridiculous tweets.

Does this mean I'm in the centre?

I believe she is more sinned against than sinning, yes.

You still haven't said rhat you find her behaviour a problem at all. Are you really going to maintain that it's ok for her to bully, attack and lie about women?

I don't believe that she has.

RandomNPC then you haven't been paying attention to what she has been saying or doing for a long time.

Either that, or you think that sort of behaviour is just fine, and nothing to get worked up about, in which case I despair.

Annie, I'm not going to get into a spat about it. From the evidence I have seen, I respect her. You have my opinion and I have mine.

^You have your opinion, obvs

That's fine, RandomNPC - except this isn't a matter of opinion, but of record and of evidence.

To take two examples from the very mild end of the spectrum: Sarah continued to repeat the lie that Kate Smurthwaite's gig got cancelled because Kate "only sold 8 tickets", when she'd repeatedly had the opportunity to see the evidence that this wasn't the case.

She also sent something like 60 tweets to Mary Beard in an hour, berating her for signing That Letter, when MB had been unfailingly courteous in her twitter conversations, but had also said it was making her want to cry. Who does that?

Lies and harrassment. And like I said, these two are plucked from the very mild end of the spectrum.

You can hold whatever opinions you like about Sarah, of course, but your current ones are not supported by the available evidence.

"I feel that someone like Owen Jones will often attract the vitriol of the middle classes....they'll find SOMETHING to hate about him because of what he says."

No, he attracts the vitriol of working class people because they feel he uses his platform to further his career, and that he has nothing original or useful to say about the lives of working class people. It is the middle classes who are his fan base.

It's also amusing the way Owen considers The Daily Telegraph to be part of 'the Establishment' in his book of the same name, but strangely not The Guardian

I think 'the Establishment' is everyone who says things Owen Jones doesn't like.

D'you hear that, radfems? You're officially now Establishment

Mrs Flannel I can't be doing with OJ - I am working class, a chav if you like.

Yes, I've only heard him praised by MC types tbh.

Mrs flannel, I'm far from middle class, I'm actually the so called underclass. I still think he's a dick. And you know what if I asked 200 of the working class people I know who Owen jones is? They wouldn't have a fucking clue. He writes for the guardian ffs, that's about as middle class as you get.

Oswin: "He writes for the guardian ffs, that's about as middle class as you get."

I know this is going to be controversial, but I do know working-class people who read the Guardian. Shocking, eh?

Personally I find Owen Jones annoying, but I'm not quite sure why. Politically I'm on the same side of the fence as him. I think his alliance with Russell Brand, among other things, shows a lack of ability to judge character.

Oswin and why shouldn't he? It's a fucking newspaper? Perhaps he should publish his articles on discarded fast food wrappers so the serfs can access them?

But he's held up as a hero to the working classes and no one knows who he fuckin is. I know not one person who reads the guardian. The local shops don't sell anything other than the sun the mirror the daily mail and local papers.
What I'm trying to say is the world that Owen lives in now is miles away from the people he talks about.
Frankly everytime I see a guardian article about issues that affect me and my friends I feel patronized to fuck.
We're not people, we're the poor.

But the article wasn't about IVF - it was about two gay men's attitude to another two gay men's children (and presumably other such children) for being born with IVF assistance - so "not mentioning women" in a very short article seems uncontroversial. Unless one wishes to lump it on the shit shovel to throw at OJ.

It was a bit about IVF though, and D&G saying all children conceived through it were "synthetic".

Hmm, no, derailleur - it was about IVF, if you read it - and it completely ignored the fact that even if two gay men are the eventual parents, there is going to be a woman pretty heavily involved in a crucial part of the process. She is a person, not a lumpen bit of kit to be ignored while Owen discusses the more important matter of which rich men are right.

And of course, the D&G comment was about the children, calling them "synthetic" - and what you acknowledge in brackets, that there are "other such children", and there are way more women (gay and straight) who have these "synthetic" children than there are gay men.

Not really Caria - no talk of process, procedure, science, demograph, success rates, cost etc. Nothnig at all. Just two gay men's attitude, as you say. Which was pretty appalling, imo

No AA - disagree - of course I read it. IF OJ was asked to write about IVF I'd hope he'd have the good graced to answer " I don't know enough about it". But that wasn't the purpose of the article. It was about lousy comments about IVF-assisted children, not about the women who give birth to them.

It wasn't about the process or procedure, that's true, but it was still about the result is, "synthetic" children, most of whom have been born to women who've struggled with infertility for years.

But anyway, I digress. My biggest issue with Owen is not the IVF article but his treatment of feminists in the past few weeks. It takes a special sort of "feminist" to write an article proclaiming that men should listen to women more, and then not practise what he preaches.

fwiw I've been boycotting D&G for ever - too chavvy.

Caria - I don't know much about the feminist thing, but if it's true it would seem to be inconsistent with what he talks about anyways.