To think you don't have to be female to be a feminist

[WomenVsBarbie]

I've always thought men could be feminist. I met up with a friend I described my other friend as a feminist (part of a feminist/environmental group) but friend said he can't be a feminist as he is a man. Is this true can you be male and feminist?

Of course you can. Men can think women should be treated equally.

Thankfully lots of them do. YANBU. Your friend is being VU.

Some people think that men can't be feminists, but only "allies". Personally I find that view pretty sexist. Feminism is a spectrum, and views change depending where you are on it.

I thought I was right

I see no reason at all why men can't be feminists, I know plenty who are (and plenty who aren't !) it is surely adherance to a set of beliefs and not based on gender. That is my interpretation of feminism anyway.
Its a bit like saying a white person can't advocate equal rights for black people, or a heterosexual can;t believe in equal rights for gay people, or an adult can't support rights for children.

You don;t have to be in a certain element of society to believe that that section of society should be treated with equality.

You should have got your phone out and googled it for her

OP - I agree, but would be interested to see the responses if you also post on the feminism board...

Hmm. A man can be a feminist, but in my experince, men who say they are tend not to be.

Thoughtful men tend to say they are allies. Or not call themselves anything but show what they are through words and actions.

worra the Google comes up with all different opinions

I agree with your friend.

I think most women think men can be feminists but in practice male self declared feminists often direct their attentions to telling women that they are doing feminism wrong and trying to get them to doing how the man thinks is the right way. Any man doing that isn't genuinely a feminist in my opinion.

A man can be a feminist. An example of one in sport is Andy Murray.

Nope sorry. No can do IME.

I don't like labels and so would never call myself one anyway but the jury is out on that.

There are enough feminists who don't think that men can be feminists for me to not want to be labelled as one, even if I considered myself one (IYKWIM).

It would seem we can be 'feminist allies' but don't have the pre-requisite genetalia to be able to classify ourselves as feminists. That's fair enough I suppose.

For me feminism is about equality and understanding how the deck is systematically stacked against women, and that men experience sex based privilege.

Men absolutely can and do "get this". Just witness Richard Herring's recent heroic twitter activity on International Women's Day.

Nothing sexier than a feminist bloke

"A man can be a feminist. An example of one in sport is Andy Murray."

Well, he has a woman coach........

A recent Guardian list of the 10 best examples of feminists included Patrick Stewart, for the work he's done publicising the damage to women and children of domestic violence, by talking about what his father did to his mother. I personally thought that was bang on. He's a very vocal advocate of women's rights and the responsibilities of the state to protect them.

Of course a man can be a feminist. My dad was proud to consider himself one.

well my ds is one

Well, all I can say is that I haven't come across one yet. That's not to say that I've never met a man who doesn't believe that he thinks men and women are equal, but too often they don't really understand the reality of women's oppression and expect feminine and nurturing behaviour from women in circumstances that they would not expect it from a man. Often, they can't seem to help making rremarks about the age and attractiveness of women at inappropriate times and refuse to accept that the policing of woman's presentation as sexist.

Maybe my standards are too high, but I've met lots of men who don't really get why, for example, maternity and the effect of childbirth on women's earnings isn't just a free floating consequence if entirely unforced choice.

If a man can examine these things without having to be defensive or explain reality, maybe he is a feminist. But I haven't met him.

Surely this is a circular question? It just depends how you define feminist.

Some people's definitions exclude men. I've got a male friend who would always call himself an ally rather than a feminist, and I think that's fair enough. I've rather more male friends who would call themselves feminists.

I am much more bothered by how someone acts, than what they call themselves.

Doesn't it go against the entire principal of feminism (Ie equality of the sexes) to say they can't?
To the women saying 'men can only be allies', do they not see the glaring hypocrisy?

yes a man can be a feminist

if he believes that men and women should have equality and recognises that we are not there yet

I don't think it does, rocket.

It's not hypocritical - my friend who would call himself an ally, does so because the system is not currently equal. Him declaring he has equal rights to women doesn't do anything to change the pre-existing equalities.

That said, I don't really care.

What I do care about, is people (men and women, but especially men, for the same reason of pre-existing inequality) who call themselves feminist and then use that as an excuse to justify any action of theirs. Just calling yourself a feminist, doesn't mean everything you do has to be beyond feminist critique, IMO.

Doesn't it go against the entire principal of feminism (Ie equality of the sexes) to say they can't?

Well, equality for women is an aim of feminism, but I find that a bit narrow, to be honest, and open to what you're doing here - using it as a way if demonstrating that what feminists should really concern themselves with is whether men are treated equally. Of course, this isn't really the responsibility of feminism and I suspect that if we really did treat men equally to women, there'd be war. Personally, I prefer to see it more globally - accepting that women are people.

As I said, i think men can be feminists. But the ones I know who call themselves feminists generally aren't. And the couple I know who are would not describe themselves as feminists.