To feel as if I literally cannot do another day in my life?

[Ledkr]

Dd is just four. Never been a good sleeper but we have had a few brief periods of respite.
The main problem is the earky waking which appears relentless.
Five am today. DH works most weekends so my weeks just run into one another with no break because I'm up early for work in the week.
This mornjng I feel utterly broken.
I have a constant headache, my work suffers, I have no energy for exerciss or socialising, dh is the same as in his days off he gets up to give me a break but I'm stil up at 7 for work. I'm falling asleep by 8.
Occasionally she has a day or two of sleeping in and I return to the happy energetic womN I ised to be which just makes me more sad and frustrated.
I guess if anyone does reply they are in the same boat as its so early just needed a moan as in struggling to be civil to her right now.

Can you go to bed earlier? I get up at 5 for work six days a week. I go to sleep at 10 every night so I never feel tired because I still get 7 hrs sleep.

I would just be very strict with when they can leave their room. So ideally they sleep until 7am, if they really can't sleep then they can quietly read books in bed or play quietly ie do a puzzle or similar. No leaving bedroom to disturb others sleep until 7am unless to the toilet.

Keep showing them the clock, teaching time, and returning to bedroom until they know this. At first you need to go in at 7am for a few weeks and make a big deal about ' well done' 'look it's now 7am and you may get up ' etc

Sleep deprivation is torture. Dd1 was dreadful in the sleep department - and tired & grumpy during the day as a result. It felt relentless and I was in tears if exhaustion a lot. If it's any help I can tell you she is now a good sleeper- goes to bed without a fuss and stays asleep. Really hope things improve for you soon xxxx

I'm sorry to hear that things are so difficult and hope they soon improve.

You have my sympathies Ledkr.

DD was the same until close to 5. She had a Sam Sheep clock and we trained her that if Sam's eyes were closed, she had to be in bed quietly. It took about a month of taking her back to bed, reward charts and stickers but it did get better.

I hope you find something that works for you.

Can you combine new Groclock, rapid return and bribery and see if you can crack it?

So no coming in to your room until yellow sun, if she manages that she gets a treat (maybe stick up in little toys from 99p shop?). If she does wake you, rapid return until the sun on the clock comes up, no treat today but you can try again tomorrow.

Start with Groclock set at her usual waking time plus five minutes, and add five minutes each time you think she's ready (maybe after two or three mornings of earning her treats).

Might that work for you?

TBH I started being tough at this age on my non-sleeper. I never got out of bed to her (she came to me) and she was told to go away - "still night time go back to bed"

Any chance you could set up CD audio books in her room that she then has to go and listen to a story (loooooooooooong novel) in bed before she disturbs you again?

I think you would have to be strict to enforce the new routine and perhaps put up with some tantrums but I wonder if actually listening to a story in bed may help her go back to sleep as you say she is shattered too?

Even if you get 7 hours, the getting up at 5am is soul destroyingly awful...I do sympathise. But she is four, she can understand she needs to stay in bed.

I think you should try some serious bribery with the gro clock. Start by putting it really early the first morning so she doesn't have to wait and give her a prize (sticker or something) when she wakes after the sun has come up on the clock, as if she's waited iyswim. Make a big fuss.

Then se the clock a little bit later each morning. Do a sticker chart and once she's got 3 stickers give her a present or a treat. For DS we took him on a bus ride to the next village once he had 3 stickers. It meant at first we weren't getting up any later but as we changed the clock a bit later each day he seemed to gradually adjust and quite soon we were reliably at 7am.

It needs patience and for the first few days you still get up bloody early but it really worked with DS and seemed almost to help him adjust to later waking.

DS was 3 btw when we did this. He's almost 7 and still has his gro clock and waits for the sun to come up. He's still an early bird but will wait until 730 for the sun.

You have my sympathies. My DS is a terrible sleeper and it takes its toll - I'm a LP so ifar he's awake - so am I!

My sister is one of those who thinks it's easily solved. She has no idea and tbh I think that's because she has no interest in trying to understand.

More sympathy from me too, Ledkr

Personally, I found that as long as I got a minimum of 4 hours in one stretch I could survive, so 8 hours in one-hourly increments would have killed me tbh hence the co-sleeping and babies helping themselves to a feed overnight while I semi-snoozed through.

Anyway, yes, with a 4 yo I'd persevere with the concept of the GroClock or the bunny ear one. In fact, we used an old radio alarm clock for DS3 whose getting up time became earlier and earlier when he was around that age. I cracked when he started insisting it was getting up time before 5am

We taught him what a number 7 looks like and he was to stay in his bed/his room until at least 7am. It worked once we had also pointed out to him where the number 7 was to be…. 4.37am did NOT count!

I agree there should be NO baking or any other fun activity on offer that time in the morning.
You know that technique for bedtime that involves just taking them back to bed with less and less input, no eye contact, no fuss? Could you try that in the morning??

I hope you have and and later on.

My worst sleeping is now 12 and has just started sleeping like a teenager - 12+ hrs per day, every day!

My worst sleeper

Oh my, this thread has moved on in the time it took me to type my post.

Rapid return, that's the one.

I think you need to get tougher. No way should she get baking at the crack of dawn. Here she would get seriously cross and grumpy mummy. Kitchen doesn't open until 7. Send her back to her room and tell her to entertain herself. Yes she will kick off but you have to persevere, it may take a week or even two. She may never sleep late but she's old enough to entertain herself for a bit. My three year old manages it no problem. If you can trust her downstairs you could teach her how to switch telly on.

GoogleyEyes strategy sounds great.
We have just about got the Gro-Clock to work with our terrible sleeper (didn't sleep though till nearly 3, now 4 and a big fan of early rising).

Have had to expand the rules to include the star countdown thing it does; one star left means you can play quietly in your room, more than one means go back to sleep. This is after finding him up playing at 3am, 'waiting for the sun to come up'

Good luck!

PacificDogwood Yep, I needed a straight 4 hrs to feel human as well. And ideally 8+ hours in total. But if I didn't get a 4 hr stretch, I was a zombie.

I really feel for you. I have a 2.5 year old who rarely sleeps past 6am. Today she was awake at 5am. It's hell. I live in a constant fog of tiredness as she still wakes up at night as well. I have no advice but just wanted to offer sympathy.

And people tell me to go to bed earlier but how?? I work full time, I would have no life at all if I went to bed at 8pm everyday. Also I have read that the early morning sleep is a different sleep cycle, if you miss it or it is cut short it has a big impact.

Lots of support and sympathy from me.

God I hate smug people like Ant. When my refluxy baby was waking 5 to 7 times a night and needing to be held for 20 mins after each feed I felt like I was going to die. There was no way I could get decent sleep in short spurts like that even if I could get naps in the day. I think you were remarkably polite and reasonable to Ant OP. I'd have gone mental at a poster like that if I had posted for support in my sleep deprived months.
You have my sympathy OP. It is very very hard.

^^ well said!

People who can get straight back to sleep easily etc. just have no idea what life is like if you're not like them...

It sounds like your 13yo could do more to help. She wants you to stay up in the evening to keep her company, but she doesn't want to help in the mornings. Get her to do some mornings. She'll soon be letting you go to bed early in the evenings.

At 4 your DD is well out of toddlerhood.I think you need to start setting up a strict system of sanctions and rewards.

Thanks for all your posts.
I'm definitely going for the tough approach. I'll be doing rapid return till 6.30.
I think ant is one of those posters who just tries to get a row out of the most benign posts. I can't be arsed to be wound up by them.
lert Id consider making my 13 yr old get up at 5 with my child, pretty abusive to be honest.
She doesn't ask me to stay up with her but I'm not leaving her sat downstairs on her own while I chip off to bed. 3 times a week she's not back until 8 so I do like to spend time with her before she goes to bed around 9 or Id never see her.
She's a lovely helpful girl and hardly ever any trouble, she's brilkiant with her sister too.
I explained the grow clock again tonight so she gets it.
I'll report back tomorrow as to how it goes.
Thanks for getting me through this morning x

I often think my youngest is the way she is to ensure she was the last

Hope the tough love works quickly. At least my non-sleeper was happy and chirpy on her non-sleep. Not sure if I could have coped with a miserable tired child on top of how awful I felt!!!

Ledkr, good luck for tonight/tomorrow morning - hope you get some sleep yourself