Refusal to discuss formula feeding at parentcraft class

[obeliaboo]

AIBU? Ready for the fire!
I've been told that in order for me to have a tour of my chosen hospital's delivery suite, that i need to attend 'parentcraft' classes.
Yesterday was exclusively about breastfeeding, fair enough, didnt know that of course until we got there.
So, as the midwife goes on about breastfeeding and support, I enquire what is the support for those who fall into small percentage of mums who cannot breastfeed. Simple question.
"What do you mean?".
I had to ask again, and put it across that i intend to breastfeed, but what if i cant, what if my milk doesn't come in. It happens, it happened to my eldest sister, its nothing to be ashamed of so whats the harm in asking and what is the support in that situation.
"We don't discuss artificial feeding".
Seriously?? I understand the necessity to promote breastfeeding is a priority for the NHS, because it seriously needs normalising, but to just object to even touching on the subject of formula feeding really riled me. I felt like i was at a propaganda session! She instead continued to address breastfeeding and a specific brand of electric breast bump at a specifc well known retailer.
Is this what the NHS supports? Big business's and there overpriced products (the specific one mentioned was over £100, I am not in a position to be able to afford something like that for a start), under the guise that 'breast is best', its the best start for baby - and insinuating that formula is the devil when for some poor souls, it is the only option?
AIBU for finding this absolutely snotty and condescending? There are mums out there who are underconfident, or genuinely don't lactate, mums who have gone through breastcancer and mastectomies etc, so why are these midwives refusing to even consider discussing both options.
Why make it militant and harder for those who simply can't, to speak up without feeling ashamed?
FYI this is the 3rd midwife i've had ranting at me over this.

Apologies for not reading the whole thread.

NCT has a useful page on how to bottle feed:

www.nct.org.uk/parenting/bottle-feeding-your-baby

When I was going through this the head of the Nct was on BBC breakfast being quizzed on this very issue. The head of NCT sneered (yes, sneered ) "Very few women Can't breastfeed". Very supportive, I don't think.

pop a lot has set out how it should be. But it isn't and health professionals should be ashamed of the misery they cause.

WindYour - don't be silly that didn't come across like that at all and actually I know exactly what you mean as DSis had a similar experience. Her pfb was a 36 weeker but a decent weight so he was just on ward. She got no support with the ff and was discharged as normal the next day. He lost so much weight in the following days as he couldn't suck properly and wouldn't wake for feeds. She was so upset and he was nearly readmitted. After learning everything in SCBU with DS we can't believe she was ever let home so soon and with no support ??

yes sparky charming aren't they? In one way its probably true that it's a minority but wtaf does 'very few' mean. Its a minority yes but even if it's 1% that's about 300000 in the UK alone

I'd had so little help from mws and hv s, I was struggling with very poor health, I was thinking "maybe I should contact Nct", and then I saw how sneering and dismissive their head was and I decided it was better for my mh to just give up bf. I can still get upset by it after all this time.

This thread makes me very very sad. Firstly the large number of new mothers who have had such unsupportive HCPs at a time when they already feel shit that bf isn't working. And secondly (even worse), the lack of compassion from a handful of judgy posters on this thread.

Obviously clear FF guidelines are important. When I came to make up powdered formula for the first time, I made it wrong. In my sleep-deprived state, I had misread the instructions and the water I used was too cool. Funny it doesn't explain on the side of the can why the water has to be hot..., I thought it was about the water itself being sterile. I do count myself as an intelligent person as well btw. Not only this, but parents need to know not to stress out if their babies want 10 bottles instead of 8 per day, and with 90 mL rather than 120 mL per bottle etc.

I almost feel compelled to write to my MP about this issue. If UNICEF guidelines are preventing hospitals from supporting new mothers, then perhaps they are not the guidelines they should be following. Not only that, but FF seems as though it is becoming socially unacceptable, akin to smoking in public or something. I tried for 12 weeks to bf, and even continued to express for a couple of months after that. No amount of help from midwives, breastfeeding counsellors or lactation consultants solved our problems. The tongue tie wasn't even spotted for 3 weeks, and even then not by a HCP, and our local hospital don't even cut TT (refusing to believe that it affects feeding).

I do believe mothers who can't bf should have emotional support too. I don't believe that bf support groups really provide this unless you are still trying to bf. Perhaps there should be some "feeding support groups" instead. I was lucky not to fall into postnatal depression, mainly due to a supportive DH, friends, family and GP. Interestingly in the recent issue of our local NCT newletter, postnatal depression and bf was mentioned, but the title was about how bf reduces PND. Only at the bottom of the article did they mention in passing that it had been found that not being able to bf was linked with PND. I am past the guilt of not being able to bf now, but still find myself having to explain to people I meet why I FF, and I feel intensely sorry for any new mothers that are in the same position I was. Most of us are hard enough on ourselves without having to feel judged by wider society, when what is really needed is compassion.

Not only that, but FF seems as though it is becoming socially unacceptable, akin to smoking in public or something.

7% of women are still exclusively breastfeeding at 4 months. We've been to a baby class this week and DH came out commenting at the fact that he noticed a couple of people lying about whether they were FF or BF. That's awful. Especially since I don't think any less of anyone doing it. There definitely is an element of shame in there nor would I expect an explanation.

Interestingly in the recent issue of our local NCT newletter, postnatal depression and bf was mentioned, but the title was about how bf reduces PND. Only at the bottom of the article did they mention in passing that it had been found that not being able to bf was linked with PND.

I've ended up breastfeeding. I'm glad. But the biggest reason I'm glad was because of how much I was struggling with the concept of giving formula and this whole thing of 'failure'. Logically and rationally, I know this is utterly absurd and I don't believe there is anything wrong with formula. But I was reacting in an emotional and irrational way - probably mostly driven by hormones. DH even commented at the time when I was struggling most that I was not behaving in a way that I normally would.

I do believe that if I had ended up FF I would really have struggled even more than I did. I do reflect on how different it could have been and how difficult it must be for women who don't get quite as lucky as I did.

And I do think it was luck for me. There were a lot of chance things that happened that ultimately combined to help me struggle through in my own unique way. I certainly don't think it was determination on my part that was the deciding factor.

Lies, damn lies and statistics. Just how much of women's health is based on ideology and belief rather than science and evidence?

Thank you for sharing the link , hackmum.

And rainy i agree there should be FF support. Online support is something MN can offer. I just looked at the infant feeding topic under the Baby forum. The first two pages have a dozen FF threads, others which might be but the post name is vague. Those of us with experience could lurk on that forum and share our knowledge.

It's an interesting post OP, I am currently expecting my first, and I've found there has been Literally no information whatsoever about FF.

I have already decided with my husband that we will be FF our baby (and before anyone jumps in, this is our final decision) and to be honest, I have no idea what to do, how to prepare it, what formula is best, what teat/bottle is best, how to hold the bottle etc

I've just double checked my maternity pack and at my booking in appt, I was given a booklet called "important information about feeding your baby". Great I thought! This will tell me everything I need to know about both options. Nope! It's focused solely on BF. It actually says if I FF my child, she will be more likely to have diabetes in adulthood - surely the impact of 20+years diet will have more of an impact than the first few weeks? It also said you shouldn't mix feed and that a lot of babies will refuse to bottle feed as they will only accept the breast.

There was literally nothing about tongue tie or any problems which could occur- to be honest, I have no idea what TT is, I've only come across the phrase from reading the threads on here. I think there should have been clearer information about the problems which MAY occur and solutions to the problems.

To me this booklet smacked of propaganda and was one of the things that pushed me from being open minded about the whole subject - before I read it, I hadn't decided fully what I wanted to do but I felt the whole tone was so sneering and judgemental.....IMO this booklet should have been called "important information about BrEASTFEEDING your child". No wonder so many people get worried and panic if they struggle if this is what information is being pushed throughout pregnancy.

Mother care has info on products. at least they used to. Hope your mws and hv s are more humane than mine. Recommend cartons and pre sterilised bottles for hospital as previous poster has said. Keep well and congratulations on your pregnancy

Chocolatecake To find out what to do, just go to a shop and look at the packets. You don't have to buy yet. Just look at the labels.

You hold the bottle just as you would hold an apple in your upturned hand with the teat pointing towards the baby and pull it very slightly once the baby has latched onto it. The continuous 'pull' will help the baby to realise that it must suck to keep the milk 'flowing'. Keep the teat filled with milk. Take out of the baby's mouth and wind occasionally.

Someone else will come forward to say how sterilising bottles is done or that what I've said is wrong.

I have to say, I never pulled the bottle to keep the baby drinking. But then mine was such a pig, she'd drain a bottle in a matter of minutes anyway!

My mum taught me to be careful of the baby's tongue, making sure the teat was sitting comfortably on top and not accidentally pushing the tongue backwards, which isn't a good idea obviously.

Thank you Eve, sea and sparky!

Chocolate - can you really not find ANY information about bottlefeeding?

Have you, errr, tried googling?

The baby feeding board here?

Asking someone who bottlefeeds? (Can't be that hard to find someone - only 2 in 100 babies never has a bottle).

What about phoning the C&G helpline?

Or joining one of the formula company 'mum's clubs'?

Honestly, it's all out there, but you do have to look.

Chocolate - are you sure that instead of the guide saying 'you shouldn't mixed feed' it ACTUALLY says that you should avoid mixed feeding while you are trying to get breastfeeding established?

If you're not sure tell us the title and we can check it out online (most NHS patient info is available as PDFs).

"Not only that, but FF seems as though it is becoming socially unacceptable, akin to smoking in public or something"

And yet 95% of women you see feeding their babies in public will be bottlefeeding.

And 98% of UK babies will have formula by the time they turn 1.

Clearly UK mothers are in no way turned off bottlefeeding.

In fact more formula is sold and used now than ever before, despite increases in bf rates.

Go figure.

Ff isn't always atraight forward either - women can need emotional support for their choice in doing so. I have done both, currently relactating after a 6 week break and getting massive help for doing so. I hope if I was struggling with ff I would get the help to, and k have to say round here I probably would. Very lucky with our HVs and midwives here.

*too

• I Sorry!

Why should you have to look when you don't have to look for breast feeding support?

It was 1am in the morning when I nearly cracked. I was in pieces. Not thinking straight and certainly was NOT capable of doing any of the above. I thought it would be a lot simpler and realising it wasn't when I was far from my best did not help the situation.

I have to admit I did feel a little like chocolate about just how much breastfeeding was being shoved down my throat. I ended up with SIX copies of the same breastfeeding leaflet (good use of NHS resources that one. Especially since I used to work at a printers and know exactly how much those leaflets cost). Which was shite anyway and only stressed me out rather than encouraged me.

As I said before I was enormously grateful to my HV for the much more balanced approach she took as it did take that pressure off a little (and probably was actually one of the things that helped me to go down the BF route ironically enough). I take exception to anything being shoved down my throat so hard especially when coupled with the emotional blackmail. I'm rather cynical of it.

I personally point blank refuse to join any baby 'clubs' on principle too.

(BTW DS never got nipple confusion... He was fed for 16weeks by bottle and amazingly worked out how to breast feed after that. He's obviously either a genius baby or its bollocks to try and persuade you to bf. As much as I'd like to say its the former...)

I haven't read all the thread, but with my first my milk didn't come in, and due to low blood sugar the hospital started him on formula. It wasn't really a situation I could have objected to, he needed to get his blood sugar up. So off we went on to formula, I did try and bf but my milk still wasn't coming in and he'd already started on formula.

I went on the WHO website to find out how to advance prepare feeds, as the 'party line' on the formula tubs is that you shouldn't do this but who the fuck is going to make a feed and wait half an hour for it to cool down at stupid o'clock in the night with a screaming baby.

I learned to make it the feed with hot water and then rapid cool it, but the number of mums I've met who think it's fine to boil and cool the water and then add it to the milk (which is completely wrong as the water needs to be above 70 degrees when it is mixed to kill bacteria in the powder) is shocking.

so by not mentioning this kind of thing in antenatal classes they really are putting babies' health at risk.

Bloody stupid if you ask me.

I COULD NOT breastfeed. Ds diagnosed with bubble pallet after a few weeks. This is after I had hoards of well meaning staff try and force my crying baby onto my breast. A breastfeeding coordinator came to see me and I sobbed when she told me this is not the thing to do and I would not have to do that again. I expressed for 6 months in the end but I gave up a awful lot to do that. No regrets but I defend every woman's right to choose what's best in her own circumstances.

I think there should be help/support/advice for all types of feeding.

I personally feel that if the midwives had more time it would be easier to help people learn to breastfeed, it's all very well handing out leaflets saying "Breast is best", but it's a skill to learn and you can only learn with an actual baby in your arms!

If for whatever reason someone chooses to formula feed they should be given support. When you've had a few hours sleep and trying to calm a screaming baby it's not easy to read all of the instructions on the steriliser and milk carton.

Maggie I agree! I see it everywhere. Its dangerous. I had my own method using boiling water to make up the feed and then adding cooled boiled water to cool it down. This would have blown my mind in the early months.

"Why should you have to look when you don't have to look for breast feeding support? "

As long as mothers make up the feeds according to the instructions on the tin their baby will be safe.

Bottlefeeding never fails because of a lack of information.

Breastfeeding on the other hand often does.