To wish my grandmother could have a funeral?

[ProfessionalPencilSharpener]

Any opinions much appreciated - it's my first time posting here, and I really can't decide whether I'm being selfish or not :(

My lovely grandmother, in her late eighties, is terminally ill, and won't be with us much longer. Weeks, really. My mother and uncles have spoken to my grandmother regarding her funeral, and she has several requests (special hymns, where she would like her ashes to be scattered, etc.)

My grandfather, who has always been narcissistic, self-centred and controlling, has completely disregarded my grandmother's wishes and announced that there will be no funeral, nor will her ashes be scattered as requested. He doesn't want the expense of the funeral, being notoriously tight-fisted. He has done nothing whatsoever to care for my grandmother during her last illness; he hasn't so much as made her a cup of tea. He complains about nurses visiting her and interrupting his tv schedule, and is miffed that he is no longer the centre of attention (his words).

Having said that - am I being unreasonable in wanting my grandmother to have a funeral? And would it be unreasonable of other family members to press ahead with arrangements? It's so important to my grandmother, and while I understand my grandfather is grieving (having lost a spouse myself), how can I explain that a funeral means a lot to her and everyone she leaves behind? She was a wonderful grandmother and deserves to have her final wishes respected. But on the other hand, he is her husband - losing his wife - it would be unkind to add to his unhappiness and telling him how we feel will upset him. But am I being unreasonable to consider telling him? :(

I think the cost of the funeral may come from your GM estate. There is some costs however low key it is. There doesn't 'have' to be a funeral though it is uncommon not to. If he just phone's for an ambulance they will take the body away then await instructions. The police will definitely not turn up with the ashes!

If you think he might be difficult around her body, you might want to try and seperate the service and the coffin in your minds. It is very common to have a service of rememberance or even celebration without the coffin present. You just need to speak to a minister/pastor/rabi/humanist celebrant and I am sure they will be happy to organise one.

It's really hard to tell if he is just awful, or awful and grieving.

Yes I think it's perfectly possible not to have a funeral, but I don't think an ambulance would be involved. He'd have to find a taxi firm willing to do it (which he might, at a price) or to ring round funeral directors for a quote, plus of course booking a slot at the crematorium. What a hassle! If he's grumbling about letting nurses in to tend his dying wife, wouldn't he rather that you all pay for organise it? Do you think it's really about the money - if he doesn't have to pay or organise it, will he let it happen?

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.

My father arranged nothing more for my grandfathers death than burial and (I think) a headstone. They were not close, but not estranged. I was much younger and didn't question the lack of a funeral, but since have been very sad that none of the many people who loved or appreciated my grandad got a chance to say goodbye. I went to the burial with my Dad and it was just us and the undertakers - very stark. He deserved more, and the rest of his family and friends deserved more.

I hope you get to fulfil your gm's wishes, for your sake and hers.

I think this has the information you need

www.adviceguide.org.uk/wales/relationships_w/relationships_death_and_wills_e/what_to_do_after_a_death.htm

Yes this time is perfect to do something, you all can't stand by and let this happen. Is it your mums mother, tell her tgat she must take control. When the time comes, you call the GP and make sure you get the death certificate. No this cannot be allowed to happen.

Could your uncles etc arrange for a funeral director to come and meet your GM so she can instruct them as to what she wants and prepay for her funeral? Not as uncommon as you might think - my great aunt organised everything in advance, and they'd be very sensitive.

Does your grandfather's view that funerals are a waste of money extend to his own funeral or will he want a full church ceremony compete with hymns when his time comes? Re your grandmother, is there anyone whose opinion your grandfather would listen to? An old friend perhaps?

There are more of you, then there are him, of course you can do it. You need a fami,yo eating now, everyone needs a kuck up the arse. If you want your grandmother to be treated with dignity, start rallying the troops for a fami,y meeting, give them the most motivational speech you can.

There are, as others have pointed out, legal things that have to be done after a death.

However, even if your grandfather wants to go the minimalist route and not to organise a funeral, there is nothing to stop other family members putting together a memorial event in which you can mourn your grandmother and also celebrate her life. The British Humanist Association can offer advice on how to organise this sort of non-religious occasion.

Yes good idea get a couple of funeral companies to visit your gran, they will do all the arranging.

Is it possible your grandfather is in the early stages of dementia? His ideas about what will happen after your grandmother dies seem quite irrational.

What a dreadful situation.
He assuming he will be alone with her when the time comes but that may not be the case. As her health becomes worse it could be necessary to have medical personnel calling to the house ( assuming she stays at home) on a frequent basis to administer pain relief or check on her comfort. If she declines when they are there they will ask your gf to call the family to come over.
In my experience once the person has passed away and the gp has been informed it is the undertaker who arrives in a private ambulance to take the remains to the funeral home where preparations are made for burial or cremation.
I can't imagine a situation where no arrangements are made, though it must happen for people with no family in which case the council have a fund for a basic funeral. I don't think they would step in when your dgm has a family.
I'm so sorry OP, this must be almost unbearable.
I think the time has come for the family to stand up to your gf. How has he gotten away with this kind of behaviour over the years? Is he terrifying?

OP I'm so very sorry that your grandmother and the rest of the family are going through this. If your grandfather is in anyway neglecting your GM then it's worth talking to adult social services.

As for an ambulance taking your GM away when she passes and the police bringing the ashes back - this won't be happening. If she is pronounced dead at home it will be undertakers who remove the body. Her estate will be expected to pay for the funeral, if there is insufficient money in the estate then a funeral grant might be available but the state recover as much as they can from her next of kin and for state purposes that is her husband. Sorry to speak of your GM in past tense whilst she is still alive.

I think when the time comes, he will just be put in touch with the local undertaker contracted to take over in these situations where people do not have one lined up, and get a big bill.

Even the bare minimum - cremation at local crem in an empty time slot, is not cheap. He will feel out of control and it will not help.

Pre-payment sounds a good plan for your GM, if that is what she wants. And a visit from the GP for your GF, to make sure he is coping ok (and not got dementia?)

What your grandfather is talking about is a public health funeral, one where there is no family or money to pay for a funeral. Google that and the local council, but it's unlikely they will be entitled to one - it's not just a case of refusing to pay and then getting it for free - forcing the council to dispose of a body when there is money will end up costing far more than doing it simply himself. If he's in full use of his faculties, then explain it to him. If he's not, then amongst the family, you need to start taking over. Can you talk to your grandmother's GP and possibly local vicar?

He also might think he's talking about a 'pauper funeral' which is what public health funerals used to be called.

From what op has said, grandfather has always been an abusive bully, with everyone too scared of him.

I How awful that he wants her to have an undignified ending, sounds like a nasty piece of work.

FIL wanted the most basic possible. His 'funeral' involved one car and the coffin taken to the crem. We followed it in, paused for a moment then left. No hymns, no guests, no fuss at all.
I was never sure what to think (and still aren't really) as he had many friends who didn't get to say goodbye, but, that said he didn't want fuss and just wanted our lives to carry on as normal.

Hope you manage to sort it.

it's her wish, so yes she should have one. Ignore him, carry on and organise it regardless. He might be suffering some dementia. It's not his decision to make anyway. Good luck at this sad time

Please read the op, grandfather does not have dementia, op has said he has always been narcissistic, controlling and controlling. People like this grow up to be abusive older people.

OK - if he won't arrange a funeral or pay for one, what will happen is the local authority will give her what is rather unfortunately called a pauper's funeral. Poor name, but it is a proper dignified funeral, and mourners can attend (some councils will pay for a mourners car as part of it.) You won't get any input into it, but it'll be better than nothing.

Oh - this is interesting. The council can then come after the estate for the expenses of the funeral - so warn grandad that either he can get involved or not be involved and have to pay for it anyway. Actually someone else could take over all the arrangements - he wouldn't have to attend or pay. There is also a Government Funeral Payment for those on low incomes.

what he expects isn't really going to happen. I suppose it's what might happen after a pauper's funeral (but the police won't be dropping the ashes back) but the family can attend that, and he will still get the bill for it.

Very sorry to hear about your Grandmother. x

I am so sorry that you are in this situation.

I can tell you what happens if you opt out of a funeral (assuming as others have said you can't just choose a council funeral) because we did this with MIL (very different and difficult circumstances). In that situation the police took her to a funeral director of their choice and 'our' funeral director arranged collection from there. Essentially if you opt out of a funeral it still goes ahead, you're just not there. MIL was cremated with just funeral director staff there and the difference in cost is minimal. You then have to arrange to collect the ashes as per normal (from funeral director).

There is still a lot of liaison with the funeral directors. In our case although they sympathised they really could not get their head around our decision. I had to tell them many many times not to tell other people the time of the cremation including some of MILs friends who wanted to know when it was. I could imagine that in your situation they would tell you when the funeral was and support you in attending.

I think that you will find the funeral directors very much on your side and hope that this explains a little about what happens if you 'opt out'.

Firstly, sorry you are having to deal with this.
If GM is of sound mind then i think if she makes a will (which you can do using a pack from a stationers) appointing executors and stating her wishes then they must try to fulfill them. This will need you (or her) to pay for the funeral in advance and there is always a chance you GF won't sign the release paperwork when she dies but it may be that he just doesnt know how to deal with it and will be glad the arrangements have been made.
Alternatively speak to local funeral director and arrange a pre-paid plan.