"Benefits are a lifestyle choice for so many these days"

[Bellerina2]

I'm on the bus and two women behind me are having a long conversation about perceived benefit cheats and one of them just said the above phrase. WIBU to hit her over the head with a rolled up copy of the Guardian??

But seriously, it's so depressing that people think this. Well done to the government and likes of the Sun and Daily Mail for convincing people that those on benefits are leading some sort of charmed life

"Imo there's a world of difference between "choosing" to live on benefits in, say, a former mining town in Wales and in London."

In Wales there's a chronic shortage of jobs. In London there's a vicious poverty trap caused by crazy rents and childcare costs. Having done advice work in both London and Glasgow (similar although less bad than Wales for structural unemployment) I can say its a different kind of poverty but equally damaging.

Im with Dad on this
Do people not get

My life style choice of living on benefits saved my arse and the roof over me and ds head. I was working in a care support role that guaranted me 20 hours a week. I paid part rent the rest paid by housing benefit. Fast forward 3 months and my job of zero contract hours were giving me one 45 minute job a week. Got into rent arrears and was about to loose our home! I had to act fast and sign on! Not an easy choice but the right one so that we didn't end up on the street

Definitely a lifestyle choice for some.

Oops. I'll try that again.

I dont understand why people don't get that you cannot compare market entry jobs to experienced jobs. We start at the bottom on low wages when you're young without a family. Then we work, move through the ranks etc where we earn enough to support a family. Entry level jobs are not, and doubt they ever have been, enough to support a family.

In what world do 18 year olds earn enough to support a family.? That is the jobs people are going for. Zero skill / zero experience.

I think its completely unrealistic.

And yes.. I think there are many who take advantage of the system. The british public believe they are 'entitled' to a lot of things..

Did the OP come back then or was it another drop and sit back?

Good question gamer

JaWell The problem is that 'entry' jobs aren't just being done by youngsters..I'm in a entry level job and have been for nearly 8 years,I'm 48, I keep pushing for progression but am deemed too old..they prefer to pull in managers from other fields and not within the workforce, or promote graduates.
I support DH and myself. (DH retired)
When DC were young due to living in an isolated area we were advised by the job centre against DH taking low waged jobs (pre NMW) because the costs of transport would outweigh the the benefits of taking a job...pride doesn't pay the bills! I got a job when the DC didn't need childcare. DH did take a job and boy did we get in a financial nightmare!
The rise of Zero hour contracts is exacerbating the problem. Also many people I know only get offered 20 hour contracts with option to work up to full time but then often get long periods of time on contract hours only. Adults can't support families on this. Adjustments to tax credits can take weeks months to process. When I started working my wages varied monthly although I notified each change I ended up 'owing' 5k!

Chronic lack of education, confidence and aspiration are a social problem IMO.

I agree. And I agree with what someone else said earlier about it taking a huge amount of gumption to extract yourself from that life.

That's exactly why the government needs to step in to ensure that work pays, and to send the message that it is not acceptable to choose a life (or to choose to have children) entirely funded on benefits.

If it stops being a choice that people can make, then society will feel more willing to fund the benefits system, and there will be more money available for those who genuinely need it.

I'm in my late thirties as is dp. He works full time but we have no regular childcare so I work part time through the night for minimum wage on a zero hour contract for a well known fast food company;)

Most of the managers there are around 20-25 and are only paid around 50p an hour more than me for a lot of pressure from above.

I recently was verbally abused by a customer who said I was "thick" due to where I worked without knowing anything about me:(

In my eyes, it's a job and I'm lucky to have it. It works for my family.

Many people where I live question why I bother, it's nice having a bit of extra money and showing my children that I work hard for our family.

There are people I know who choose not to work but are driving around in New cars, designer clothes and 3 holidays a year!
I don't envy people who have to sleep with one eye open.

I think we should admire those who live on benefits longterm. They are heroic.
It takes a fuck of a lot of guts and self-respect to refuse to take on a shitty, underpaid 'job' with a zero hours contract and no security - and no prospects of advancement, either. Even when you know that taking a bad job will leave you worse off (and that you risk losing your home or your DC going hungry if the employer rips you off so badly you have to leave and then your benefits are not renewed for weeks on end), you sometimes do it because you can't take the harassment and abuse and pressure any more. If more people were to refuse shitty jobs then there might actually come a point where large corporations would have to pay living wages.
(And just for clarity - I do not mean that shelf-stacking, cleaning, etc are shitty jobs in themselves. They are jobs that need doing. If properly paid by employers that are capable of treating staff with kindness and courtesy, they are entirely worthwhile).

Oh yes i'm living it up on my £74 a week esa! Once i pay my bus pass, train fare and bills iv got hardly anything left.
Definite lifestyle choice being ill.
Really hope i don't get better so i can carry on living such a wonderful lifestyle having to rely on other people to pay for things for me.
Yanbu op

The biggest issue with 'making work pay' is that it's a double edged sword, cut benefits so it causes widespread poverty or introduce a quick fix of the living wage, in which case inflation takes hold and the poor get a few years free pass.

The underlying issue is what our economy has been built on for the past few years, housing, any party willing to address and correct this issue will be committing political suicide for a generation,, everyone is all for helping those less fortunate unless it hits themselves directly, are they willing to pay more tax, pay more for good or potentially loose money on your house, general answer contains 'But'

As for the automation point someone mentioned up thread, this argument was used when the Spinning Jenny was introduced.

Also, bear in mind that the whole concept that people 'should' work, whether there are tasks that actually need doing or not, is bullshit. A lot of jobs are completely fucking pointless in themselves (most call-centre work, a lot of 'management' jobs). If there was a citizen's income so that no one starved, and essential jobs were all paid at least a living wage, then the majority of pointless jobs would probably disappear, and people would have more time to do what they wanted.
There would still be a few whinyarses incapable of leaving other people alone, of course, but if everyone was comfortably off and had the option of taking on work to generate more income, people would spend less time whining and complaining about other people's choices.

totally agree about the whole pointless jobs thing, its mostly a way of keeping us all busy and stressed

I think we should admire those who live on benefits longterm. They are heroic.

Completely agree.

And conversely the pointless paid job situation, there is lots of work that desperately needs doing that doesn't pay.

Where do you think the money will come from to support the citizens income if a lot of jobs will just dissapear then Solid

remuneration doesn't correlate strongly with social usefulness....probably an inverse relationship if anything!

thats a question of where exactly does wealth come from, money isnt wealth, it's just numbers in an account, it isnt tied to anything fixed rather it is created by banks.

The whole system is rather dysfunctional

Suzanne

Yet the majority of parents on here, and generally the majority of the public, factor the renumeration package for either themselves or thier DC over the social good.

Renumeration is a big part of choosing a career.

I'd be surprised if they didn't do that Justanotherlurker, but it would be nice if the jobs that are truly useful were also the well paid ones.

instead we pay vast sums to people who break the financial system

If your going to go down the ones and zeros route then you will understand that it's a global market place, the fictional reserve can be illiminated by other nations and it is dysfunctional, but correcting this would be suicidal if it wasn't a world wide policy especially considering we have been at the forefront in the financial sector.

There is a limit in how many ones and zeros can be introduced before it becomes a problem.

I appreciate that we are not an island...well we are of course but we are embedded in the global economy and the problem of how to make things fair and efficient is well nigh intractable.

Still it's good to examine things and identify corruption rather than just accept the situation as inevitable.
I live in hope :)?