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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

"Benefits are a lifestyle choice for so many these days"

999 replies

Bellerina2 · 09/03/2015 11:31

I'm on the bus and two women behind me are having a long conversation about perceived benefit cheats and one of them just said the above phrase. WIBU to hit her over the head with a rolled up copy of the Guardian??

But seriously, it's so depressing that people think this. Well done to the government and likes of the Sun and Daily Mail for convincing people that those on benefits are leading some sort of charmed life Sad

OP posts:
SnowBells · 11/03/2015 17:49

Only

Earlier, another poster (who was out of work, but hoping to get into work again) talked about the many families in her area who have been out of work for generations. The poster seems to have lived there all her life, so knew the many generations. Maybe her area was on the extreme side, but the cycle seemed to repeat itself: the parents never worked, never cared much for their kids, let alone give them an education (despite free schooling, you do need parental input), and the children became the same decades later, doing the same thing to their kids. It seemed obvious that these people came from neglected backgrounds.

The only way I saw to break that cycle was to remove the kids from these families. How would you ever gain any self-worth, if that's the environment you grow up in? If your parents don't care about you, why would you think anyone else would? If your parents abused you, why would you think someone else abusing you is wrong?

If I had been a girl growing up in such an environment, I may well end up in a relationship with a guy who didn't care about me or even abused me. Because that's all I would have come to expect.

A life with a reasonable partner who actually loved me, a life in which others expressed belief that I could accomplish something, would seem just like a fairy tale, because it would never have been something I would have encountered in real life. I would never think life could be different. Better, maybe. At least, not for me.

Had she been taken away, maybe her life would have been different. But others like to talk about the whole human rights issue, and that kids should not be removed from their parents because they are on benefits argument - which I never said. I specifically thought about those families that the previous poster talked about.

Luckily for these people, they have probably never seen the files of many kids given up for adoption who almost always have had to suffer years of trauma before being removed... simply because their birth parents "had rights".

morethanpotatoprints · 11/03/2015 18:22

Ptole

I was referring to the lowering of the income that allowed entitlement to tax credits.
Something like 42k to 26k I believe.
The people in the press and on here who were complaining didn't have a sahp they were both working.

Dawndonnaagain · 11/03/2015 18:24

Just out of interest, snow, my mother was abusive. She was also headteacher of a local primary because she felt women should work. She was also pretty famous in political circles. High income, decent home etc. Should we have been sent into care?

irretating · 11/03/2015 18:28

Certain posters on here are espousing the views of Friedrich Hayek . These views include that by being on state Benefits, people have been sent along the road to 'Serfdom'

Heh, that's actually quite funny when you consider the consequences of neoliberalism. That is, a very small group of immensely wealthy families who have a massive amount of influence on governments even to the point of controlling them, and a very large, very poor, easily exploited work force.

HelenaDove · 11/03/2015 18:33

girliefriend Wed 11-Mar-15 17:01:58
snowbells I don't know why she had 5 children, she was married to an someone who abused her physically, mentally and emotionally though. She herself was let down by social services as a child and should have imo been removed as her mother was also very abusive.

Seriously? You do know that many abusers have been known to limit their partners access to contraception right? Because making sure their partner is constantly pregnant makes it harder for them to leave.

And even if he didnt limit her access to contraception those children wernt immaculate conceptions. Yet you said "i dont know why SHE had five children.

Benefit bashing isnt just class based. It has roots in misogyny too.

girliefriend · 11/03/2015 18:44

Helena I only meant by I don't know why she had 5 children that I don't feel it's any of my business to ask, I don't judge her for it and I agree that the reasons you give are very likely to be the reasons in this case Sad

I take your point about saying 'she' though, that was wrong.

HelenaDove · 11/03/2015 18:55

Sorry girlie. Its just ive seen it first hand and that kind of abuse of women has been going on for years. Its only in recent years it is getting talked about and acknowledged.

Im willing to bet in your friends case there is probably a strong chance he was limiting her access to contraception.

LuisSuarezTeeth · 11/03/2015 19:19

JillyR

The best thing anyone on this thread can do to help the poor and sort out these issues is vote Tory this year.

Explain why please?

LuisSuarezTeeth · 11/03/2015 19:22

SnowBells stop trying to excuse your own opinions by pinning them on another poster. You know what you meant, we know what you meant.

What do you think it does to a child's sense of self-worth to be removed from their family? On the basis of "not working"?

morethanpotatoprints · 11/03/2015 19:26

FFs, whose advocating taking children away from parents who don't work?
I missed that bit. Shock

I wonder if I can ever get past 2 weeks without having to link a cathy come Home scene.

morethanpotatoprints · 11/03/2015 19:29

Just a little history lesson for those who can't remember, or weren't born.
Yes folks we have been here before.
It's surprising how easily society forgets.

Arsenic · 11/03/2015 19:32

Oh I can't watch that scene Sad

keepitsimple0 · 11/03/2015 19:32

The only way I saw to break that cycle was to remove the kids from these families. How would you ever gain any self-worth, if that's the environment you grow up in? If your parents don't care about you, why would you think anyone else would? If your parents abused you, why would you think someone else abusing you is wrong?

there are lots of families that don't value work, and more that don't value education. but it's a big leap to go from there to they don't care about their children and abuse them. my guess, actually, is that there isn't as big a correlation as you think.

SolidGoldBrass · 11/03/2015 19:38

One of the biggest 'drains' on the benefit budget is housing benefit. But this has fuck all to do with the wickedness of the poor. It's a direct result of the selling off of council houses which was done with a PROHIBITION on the councils spending the money they gained from the sales on new council houseing combined with the growth in pretty much unregulated buy-to-let and the absence of rent controls.
The people living it up on your taxes are not the poor so much as their landlords - housing benefit is paid into the landlord's pocket.

JillyR2015 · 11/03/2015 19:39

Happy to. Many many people in the UK support Tory policies on these matters which are protective of the poor much more than the policies of Labour.

"JillyR

The best thing anyone on this thread can do to help the poor and sort out these issues is vote Tory this year.
Explain why please?"

We have already mentioned Iain Duncan Smith's valiant attempts to stop this cycle of poverty - let him finish his work and Cameron is tackling of the 120,000 core problem families. Great work is being done even under a coalition. Vote Conservative and we can help the poor and disadvantaged even more.

LuisSuarezTeeth · 11/03/2015 19:42

What is Cameron doing to "tackle 120,000 core problem families"?

What source are you using for this figure please?

gamerchick · 11/03/2015 19:45

Man, you're well scary you jilly Confused

LuisSuarezTeeth · 11/03/2015 19:46

I'm struggling to align "protective of the poor" with the huge increase in the use of food banks, benefits sanctions, cuts in carer/disability related payments and the Universal Credits debacle.

morethanpotatoprints · 11/03/2015 19:48

Arsenic

Yes, that clip says it all, but if people saw the whole play only 90 mins long they would see so many similarities to today.
I don't think some people believe it was real and that many of the people were filmed as it happened.
It scares me when I hear some views on here, because I wonder how many people in rl would let it happen again.
The divide and conquer is exactly the same, the poverty of those needing welfare and the cuts. The shortage of affordable homes.

If anybody is interested the film went out of print but you can rent it for £1.99 if you google, or you can download all 16 scenes from youtube.

Dawndonnaagain · 11/03/2015 19:55

Jilly I'd really like to ask what drugs you are on?
You are talking absolute nonsense. The poor and the disabled have suffered immeasurably under this coalition government, and the treasury have indicated that they fully intend to ensure they suffer further. You describe IDS's valiant attempts at welfare reform? Would they be the ones that have cost more to implement than they could possibly have saved? The ones that have disabled people evicted and committing suicide or dying of starvation? The ones that reputable studies (JRF, UEA, and others) have clearly demonstrated have damaged the poor and disabled more than any other group?
Tell me you are being facetious, please.

LuisSuarezTeeth · 11/03/2015 19:56

Blind faith Dawn. It's the only explanation.

keepitsimple0 · 11/03/2015 20:04

But this has fuck all to do with the wickedness of the poor.

i didn't say it did. but the answer from labour and lefties is more housing benefit, and more council homes, not more homes in general, or better private rental protections.

Nonie241419 · 11/03/2015 20:07

In every class I've taught, there have been children with parents who do not work, and have never worked. In a few of those families, there are grandparents and older siblings who also don't work. The children from those families are usually lovely, but are very hard to engage in academic learning.

Suzannewithaplan · 11/03/2015 20:27

'the answer from labour and lefties is more housing benefit, and more council homes, not more homes in general, or better private rental protections.'

au contraire
I think you'll find that 'lefties' are very concerned with the need for regulation of the private rental sector

SolidGoldBrass · 11/03/2015 20:38

Better private rental protections would be a good idea, certainly. But 'building more homes' isn't working too well when so many of the new homes that are being built are extremely expensive homes, targeted mainly at investors who will buy them and leave them empty - or buy them and rent them out at extortionate rates. More council homes with capped rents would do a lot to resolve the housing crisis.

And I agree with the PP who pointed out that there are not enough jobs and that it is better all round to maintain a few people who don't want to work than expend masses of effort (and money) harassing them into doing some kind of pointless non-job they don't want.
And it's utter bullshit to say that being employed is better for your mental health and self respect than being unemployed. Yes, you can gain satisfcation from cleaning toilets - it is, after all, a valid contribution to public health to keep toilets clean - as long as you are paid a fair wage and treated with courtesy and respect by your employer - but spending your days in a windowless cubicle with a headset on, having the same conversation - which consists of 'Hello, I'm calling from [energy/cable/insurance] company, do you have a few minutes?' 'FUCK OFFFFFF!' - several hundred times a day, for shit money, while your employers obviously regard you as some kind of disposable subhuman, is far worse for both your mental health and society in general than you being allowed to sit in your front room all day whether you spend your days watching TV or writing the greatest song in the history of the world.

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