"Benefits are a lifestyle choice for so many these days"

[Bellerina2]

I'm on the bus and two women behind me are having a long conversation about perceived benefit cheats and one of them just said the above phrase. WIBU to hit her over the head with a rolled up copy of the Guardian??

But seriously, it's so depressing that people think this. Well done to the government and likes of the Sun and Daily Mail for convincing people that those on benefits are leading some sort of charmed life

Snow Bells you are saying that the naice house was raided for drugs BECAUSE it was social housing. You said directly that the children of multi-generation non-workers are not looked after properly and should be adopted to break the cycle. What are you basing these statements on? I refer AGAIN to the JRF report quoted by Dawndonna.

Wicked

Going back to your post about anti social behaviour and we have the comlete opposite here.
Living near to the cricket club we experience lots of drunks, couples arguing, bottles/ well glasses smashing. These are mc people with lots of money to live it up in the clubhouse at the weekend, their behaviour is terrible.

Likewise, the children leaving the youth club have disgusting behaviour also niace mc teens from lovely backgrounds. The language, littering in peoples gardens, drinking, etc. They leave early and walk down the street to wait for daddy to pick them up in the BMW.
You come across as a right snob.

I refer AGAIN to the JRF report quoted by Dawndonna.

Waste of time.

They don#t want their myths and stereotypes proved baseless.

I'm going to have to hide this now. The spite is making me too angry,

People's have strong views on these topics. If we could make people feel responsible for themselves and entitled to nothing that might help. We always need carrot and stick with most people.

There are about 120,000 hard core problem families who have a huge range of problems and cost the state a small fortune. They tend to have lots of issues from drugs to mental health issues. The state currently is trying to deal with them as they are such a drain on everyone and their children suffer and that's yet another good thing this Government has done.

The best thing anyone on this thread can do to help the poor and sort out these issues is vote Tory this year.

The best thing anyone on this thread can do to help the poor and sort out these issues is vote Tory this year.

Ha

Word.

You are completely right, I did say exactly what you state up thread.
We just manage to fit it all in somehow.
I think dh being at home a lot and obviously flexible with time helps a lot. Today he has done part of his work, a couple of subjects with dd, some laundry, washing up and has now taken her to choir. He will have some tea/dinner when he gets back then will be working until about midnight.
He has arranging for a project to do.

I do know you haven't been nasty btw, you comment regularly and I have not got this impression.
I can't argue with anything you say and agree with you entirely, I just like the context to be right.

In that case, I think I'll just 'help the poor' by mugging them and cut out the middle man. Thanks anyway.

Jilly

Please tell me you are joking?
The Tories have never helped the poor.
In case you haven't noticed they are taking from the poor to give to the rich.
Look at chb, the previous universal benefit. Those on high wages get to keep it and all those in the middle lost out, the same with tax credits.
The disabled and ill have been hit the hardest with the bedroom tax.

Just how are the tories helping the poor, this will be good

How do people on high wages get to keep child benefit? I thought once you earned over a certain amount that was that?

(Clearly we earn nowhere near the cut off point hence having no idea! )

The tories hate the poor!

One of my friends who is on benefits has seen them cut and cut again plus despite having 5 children and living in a 4 bed house has to pay bedroom tax this family live in poverty and she struggles to feed and clothe them.

Her lifestyle is not a choice its the trap of poverty

Girlie

Why did your friend choose to have five kids? I can understand if something tragic happened, e.g. she had a comfortable life in her own house previously, and suddenly her husband died/fell ill.

I would never understand people having that many children that they can't afford. Do you know how many people can't afford to buy/rent a 4-bed house and hence stop at 1-2 kids?

I have strong opinions because I am living it.

We claim benefits because we have three children with multiple complex needs and disabilities. We care for them. We facilitate an appropriate education by attending multiple meetings and make sure they attend their multiple medical appointments that are required to keep them healthy.

We are not lazy or workshy, most days we put in 18 hours each. It would be more but obviously they are at school for some of the time - when not at the hospital. We don't sleep most nights, in term time if the diary has a rare free day we'll try and get a couple of hours of sleep.

I used to do this job for strangers for £7 an hour. Then I had a value to society. Now? No. I get carers allowance and get told constantly that I'm a leech, scum, scourge of society and responsible for all of society's ills. That I don't matter. That my family doesn't matter. That the money we depend on to survive should be withdrawn and we should just suck it up because taxpayers are sick of funding the likes of us.

I know other parent carers in the same situation.

Yet people have 'their opinions' and are 'entitled to them' because they know so much better than those living with it.

We're 'greedy' and 'entitled' - never mind that between us me and DH worked for over 20 years and paid tax, me at the higher rate. That we worked for as long as we possibly could until the kids' care needs became completely overwhelming for one person at home. No, that doesn't matter because now we're worse than vermin.

I am a person with thoughts and feelings, not a bloody robot. It's incredibly distressing when someone just completely dismisses your life and circumstances because they think they are in some way superior.

My physical and mental health have suffered through being a carer. My self respect is in the toilet.

Why are people so spiteful, envious and jealous? We may have a motability car and manage a week to ten days' camping per year but come on, look at the flippin' overall picture please!

Just this week I've learned that my local authority are now prioritising social housing for people in work which means that carers with disabled family members will find it much harder to be housed. Oh, and my council tax support has been withdrawn, again because i'm not in work.

So get your jollies over that one.

Oh, and by the way - babies aren't born walking and talking.
Disability isn't evident at birth in case you're thinking of having a pop at me for having three. They're all born within 4 years of each other.

Because weirdly I wanted to get the preschool bit out of the way and get back to work (!)

sorry - isn't ALWAYs evident at birth

Bishop

I don't think anyone has problems with your scenario... I think the system should support people who find themselves in your situation.

snowbells I don't know why she had 5 children, she was married to an someone who abused her physically, mentally and emotionally though. She herself was let down by social services as a child and should have imo been removed as her mother was also very abusive.

Tbh I think she craved the love her children give her and yes it is easy to judge her for having so many children however forcing them to live in poverty now punishes no one but the children. She has been told she should work but 2 of the children have additional needs plus she suffers with anxiety/ depression.

These situations are rarely straight forward, they have nothing so why take even more away from them?

Snow your sounding like a twatbag.
I live on an estate that's been classed as one of the worst. I can tell you know on my estate it isn't the children of single mothers on benefits that are causing trouble.
Its the children of two parent family's, where both parents are at work all hours day and evening.
I cannot believe that I have just read that if we want to help the poor then we need to vote tory. Oh yes those bastards love the poor don't they.
Have you not seen what they ate doing to the disabled and sick people in this country.
Honestly anybody who has a fucking brain would see the torys for what they are.

I refer AGAIN to the JRF report quoted by Dawndonna.

All that report proved was that there weren't generations of families who had never worked.

A family who had had just one adult in work for a few weeks out of a lifetime would have been discounted. That report tells us nothing of any substance.

girliefriend, that's an admirably measured and calm response for which I can only applaud you.

My response to that post would have been much shorter and very much more ... Anglo-Saxon.

In case you haven't noticed they are taking from the poor to give to the rich. Look at chb, the previous universal benefit. Those on high wages get to keep it and all those in the middle lost out, the same with tax credits.

Families with two earners just under the limit got to keep it, because as individuals they were earning under the limit! I'm not in agreement at all with what happened with CB, but I can at least see that families with two adults working for a decent wage will have high childcare costs and two lots of work expenses, whereas the 'those in the middle' that you refer to will probably have the luxury of a SAHP.

What are you referring to with tax credits? Do you mean the ones that refer to childcare? Tax credits is a term that covers more than one type of benefit.

I suppose when you haven't ever experienced the life that many of my friends have then its easy to sit in your little bubble, lording it over us.

Girlie Only and Oswin

Why is it not possible to question the decisions other people make? Especially when they make decisions that others have to pay for. It would be none of my business, if you chose to have 5 kids, but can freely afford to raise them on your own.

However, having 5 kids and then expecting the state to house you in a 4-bed house many cannot afford... well.

In this case, girlie's friend has suffered an abusive childhood. Yes, she SHOULD have been removed from her mother as a child, but there are many, many on here who would not like that idea, would they?

Yes, she SHOULD have been removed from her mother as a child, but there are many, many on here who would not like that idea, would they?

Why do you say that?

I imagine some people on benefits are taking the piss, but this isn't what's ballooned our welfare bill. Such people are a drop in the bucket. The tory's attack on the poor is entirely ideologically, not economically, driven. For example, their bedroom tax is a joke because it exempts the one group it should be targeting the most - the old, but of course that's their base.

The big pig in the bill is housing benefit. We think it's good economic policy here to support people in communities with no jobs rather than encouraging them to move to cities with jobs. On top of that we think it's a great idea to support people in the absolute most expensive areas of the EU (central London) rather than supporting them for a third of the cost in the outskirts of London.

Successive governments have failed to address housing. The BBC recently had an article saying that Canada builds twice as many houses (in absolute number) per year than Britain does, and copes with significantly more immigration than we do (this despite having 60% of the population of the UK). I know that Canada has a lot more space, but almost all of the building is taking place in the dense parts of the country.

Building more houses will solve a lot of the problems we have.

All very well people saying they think families like mine should get the support - under welfare reform we're being subjected to the cuts. Perfect example the council tax support I mentioned.