"Benefits are a lifestyle choice for so many these days"

[Bellerina2]

I'm on the bus and two women behind me are having a long conversation about perceived benefit cheats and one of them just said the above phrase. WIBU to hit her over the head with a rolled up copy of the Guardian??

But seriously, it's so depressing that people think this. Well done to the government and likes of the Sun and Daily Mail for convincing people that those on benefits are leading some sort of charmed life

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/11461736/More-than-100000-troubled-families-turned-round-under-social-work-scheme.html

The only party which does the poor good is the Tories which is why I exhort everyone to vote them in this year.

LOL at IDS as valiant. His stupid Universal Credit is a shambles and hundreds of millions have now been wasted.

Jilly is obviously a member of their social media team.

Oh that's ok then Jilly
The telegraph tells us everything is ok with the world.
How on earth do you know from this what on earth has happened with this scheme?

well when so many of the new homes that are being built are extremely expensive homes, targeted mainly at investors who will buy them and leave them empty - or buy them and rent them out at extortionate rates.

you can only charge extortionate rates if there is a shortage or your place is highly desirable.

I am all for taxing people for having empty homes and having some kind of foreign stamp duty.

I'm not sure removing children from their parents is the best thing to do. I have known children to be removed from homes, but usually because of serious drug issues. Usually these underclass children are not abused or intentionally mistreated. I think the parents raise them how they were raised, and see this as normal. Perhaps something like parent classes or workshops would be better? And I don't think all people on benefits are the same. Or even all of the ones who don't want to work or the same. But there are a group (to which I first referred) like this, that do fit the scrounger/waster stereotype (probably more in the area/city I grew up in than elsewhere). I don't think cutting benefits is the way to change the situation. Punishing the majority to try to change the minority will just make things worse.

And to the poster that called me a snob. I'm really not. Just that where I live, the worst antisocial behaviour comes from the roughest areas, and the nice areas have a different type of people who aren't generally anti-social.

SGB As Housing benefit is one of the most expensive welfare bills, the so called 'bedroom tax' was neccesary.

Private landlords never benefitted from the old higher rate of housing benefit that council and HA landlords were allowed to take. But housing benefit isn't paid into LLs pockets anyway, it is paid to people who cannot afford the housing they need without state help.

the so called 'bedroom tax' was neccesary.

the bedroom tax has saved a pitiful amount of money because older people are exempt.

It's not a tax. A tax is levied on earned money. This is a reduction in benefit. Very, very different!

wicked

It was me and whilst I apologise as could have been a bit OTT
anti social behaviour is just that, no matter where it comes from.
I too have experienced the anti social behaviour you refer to so know it exists and it is hard for those on the receiving end.
However, for us living where we do and anybody who lives in similar places there really isn't any difference between the classes.

What about those who put in more hours than most in paid employment?

I suppose they haven't earned anything either.

morethan I''ll have to tell dp when he gets home that apparently I'm a ghetto dwelling snobI realise now how I probably came across, and I didn't intend to sound snobby. I was remembering my family being at their wits end once, and various other bad neighbours since. I'm glad that where you live there isn't much of a class divide. And sorry to hear you have anti-social behaviour hassles too, I know how frustrating it can be, I live next door to a bar, usually quiet, lovely staff and regulars but the odd mad birthday party that gets out of hand.

it can be a lifestyle choice. i will be honest i am just getting back into full time employment after being unemployed for almost two years. the first year i minded my sisters baby while she worked and the second year i did a course in college. The job i have accepted will pay me 2 euro less a week than i currently get in benefits. i fully understand why some people choose to pass up jobs that pay minimum wage as many feel why bother exerting yourself if you are actually better off at home.

The person who posted up thread about her friend with the 5 children. Chances are even with a lowering of benefits, some people will continue to have children they can't support due to emotional needs, carelessness, abuse etc. How will we ensure such children do not suffer ?

I can see the need for reform, but can't see a way to do that without it adversely affecting those who didn't ask to be born. Can someone come up with a viable safety net.

Also, how do those whose families have grown up continue to enjoy a good standard of living on welfare once the children have grown up. I thought that single /couples JSA/ ESA type benefits are at subsistence levels ?

I've always been a total leftie, and assumed that was Daily Mail nonsense - til our 'new' neighbours moved in. Unemployed and they really do have a huge, expensive car, massive flatscreen TV and the copious extra bin bags they put out every week literally overflow all over the road with lager cans, etc. Very expensively dressed - far moreso than anyone employed on the street. And no trace of anything like workfare going on as they are there all day every day.

I've had long periods of unemployment myself - in the 1980s. No way could afford to have or run a car, made do with a tiny TV, and we watched every penny. This pair have had 2 kids - at least the latest if not both, since they were unemployed. My husband works for minimum wage and long hours - we have had to cut everything to the bone so it is galling to watch people seemingly have everything paid for by the taxpayer, when yards away, we have next to nothing. Free school dinners for my kids would be worth best part of £100 a month alone, to us - they have more disposable money than us but get all that on top - and extra heating allowance in winter, etc. We are getting by burning wood we got given for free to eke out the coal - only can afford one sack a week and by the end of the month we basically wouldn't eat if it wasn't for Aldi's.

I hate to feel like I'm adding to the culture of demonising the unemployed but there are folk who have indeed fallen through the cracks and continue to have a better lifestyle than people on low wages, who work hard. I can't see why my neighbours (who are apparently fit and healthy enough) couldn't be found work to do for some of the time to cover what it costs us to run them. The choice to go out and have kids you clearly don't want (if their screaming at the kids is anything to go by) just to get housing points and benefits, is something they shouldn't be able to have. I longed for a baby when I was unemployed but held off til I had qualifications and a good job. Not sure where these entitled people have come from.

Let me tell you something about bedroom tax.

My old neighbour had lived next door for 20 years when she lost her much loved home due to bedroom tax (her kid had grown up).

Guess who the council moved in?

An under-occupying family. Who, according to the female new neighbour herself, pay £11 a week bedroom tax! And did from the day they moved in.

Now tell me bedroom tax works. My old neighbour lost her home - she had been self employed for years and paid her way til the recession when her work fell through. She has been replaced by unemployed people who are contributing nothing to the community (small hamlet between two villages). And they were chucked out of another area's social housing... for antisocial behaviour! Now rewarded with a beautiful 3 bed house they can't even fill.

That is the reality of bedroom tax. My old neighbour simply couldn't find the extra money per week. These people, somehow, can.

How do you know your apparently wealthy neighbours are 'on benefits'? The fact that they look common and don't appear to go out to work doesn't inevitably mean that they are benefit claimants - and as you clearly despise them, they probably have no interest in telling you their business. But one or both might do some sort of high-paying work online/from home or work nights. They might be Lottery winners for all you know.

Solid, the woman told me herself. From the horse's mouth. She told me they were on full benefits, and had to find £11 a week bedroom tax. If they were lottery winners, I doubt they'd wanted or have got given, a council house only 18 months back.

Sadly we were never going to like them - they were violent, threatening and abusive from about the second day and my kids have had to listen to it, constantly. Just nothing you can love about a total stranger standing in your garden in the pitch dark screaming abuse at you, the week after he moved in. Had he been a lottery winning, hard working billionaire philanthropist, I think we'd have loathed him, after that.

Joffrey

I wouldn't bother. According to Solid, people such as your neighbours don't exist. Maybe you should offer her a house swap...

All these stories on here are apparently just anecdotes, you know...

Joffrey, it is sad that your neighbour had to move because she could no longer afford her rent, but there had to be an age cut off somewhere, and this is exactly why it was right that the reduction in HB doesnt affect those over sixty.

The council may have moved an anti social family in to the property, but they do have a responsibility to house people if they have children even if they are anti social. The problem wasn't the reduction in housing benefit, it was the lack of a two bed property to use for anti social family.

And if anti social family are having to pay £11 a week towards their own rent, then that's better then them being given the house completely for free.

There were always going to be problems when it first came in, but eventually people will be used to the idea that they either have to pay more of their own rent or downsize as soon as their children leave home.

I can see the need for reform, but can't see a way to do that without it adversely affecting those who didn't ask to be born. Can someone come up with a viable safety net.

It's tricky but I would start with free breakfasts as well as free lunches for children at school. I'd also introduce some vouchers to ensure money was being spent on the children. Let's face it, if you are going to have more children than you know you can afford, you will probably need help ensuring you prioritise your spending. Vouchers will help that.

Doesn't help people like me who maximise every penny using markets, online retailers, car boots etc to make sure that they can provide everything that's needed for the people they care for though, does it?

No but you are someone who can clearly cope with juggling and budgeting. We are talking about people choosing to have more children knowing they will get no extra CB fo rthem so possibly not the most responsible forward planners.