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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this mother should have called the school instead of me?

95 replies

Evabeaversprotege · 07/03/2015 15:48

The mother of one of dd's friends rang me last night.

There had been a situation yesterday in school (y9 pupils so 13-year-olds) and her dd has been alleged of cheating in a test.

Apparently she had the answers written on her hands & all the class saw it.
A group of them (including my dd) spoke to the teacher afterwards & made him aware.
He said he'd have to handle it carefully & then spoke to the friend.

Anyway, he told friend it was A who told on her, my dd said that was unfair to just blame A so the rest of them admitted they told the teacher as a group (this girl is always top of the class, first place etc & dd said she was annoyed that friend cheated leaving them all wondering what else she has cheated in)

Anyway, the mum rang ME last night. Said she felt her dd had been stabbed in the back by a so called friend & she was very disappointed, that her dd really has no need to cheat & she wouldn't have her name tarnished.

She asked me to ask dd what happened, so I did & sent her a message outlining her version. She said she believed her daughter was being bullied & the bully had made my dd lie on her dd.

This is honestly not the case, I told her she really should take it up with the school, not me, as I only know that my dd is black & White & had told me that whoever it was had cheated she would have spoken to the teacher.

The mum left it with me saying she wasn't going to speak to the school but wanted me to warn dd that her daughter felt stabbed in the back.

AIBU to ring school on Monday & ask wtf is going on? Or stay well away?

Thanks in advance Smile

OP posts:
Thymeout · 07/03/2015 18:30

Presumably Girl A is not a member of the 'close group'. When she reported it, Op's dd and the rest of the group felt they had to back her up because they'd seen the cheating and Girl A was telling the truth.

I don't think the girl accused of cheating should expect her friends to lie for her. They are being disadvantaged by her cheating and cheating is wrong. If the matter is being investigated - and I imagine Girl A's parents are involved, too - they'd be lying to the teacher if they supported the girl accused of cheating. I think the mother who rang is in denial.

It's perfectly possible to cheat in this way and for the class to be aware of it. She may have had writing up her arm, under her jersey, whatever. It's equally possible that the teacher didn't see it. It was a class exam. He wouldn't necessarily have been patrolling the aisles. He wouldn't have been expecting this girl to cheat. Easy enough to curve your arm round your paper - people tend to do this in tests to stop someone else copying - and read what's written on it.

As I said, it's not the first time someone's tried it. As Ballet has pointed out.

GokTwo · 07/03/2015 18:34

I don't agree your dd was necessarily wrong for telling about the cheating. It's not acceptable to cheat and what if this girl continued to do so

lem73 · 07/03/2015 18:36

Btw I'm not criticising your daughter for telling on this girl. It's the right thing to do and I hate cheats. My problem is that it's got her involved in aggro which you and she could probably do without.

Thymeout · 07/03/2015 18:38

Sorry - Girl A was a member of the group. But the rest still applies.

Much more likely that the girl was cheating than it's part of a convoluted bullying plan, if the girls were friends.

Idefix · 07/03/2015 19:05

I would call/email the hoy. I'm my dc school this sort of thing gets dealt with by pastoral staff and the hoy. Usually there is an investigation and it is very obvious who the individuals involved are.

Really surprised by pp who seem to be suggesting that op dd and friend A have behaved wrongly in speaking out about this. Presume this because these pp think that alerting the appropriate authorities - in this case the teacher - is being a snitch/grass? Really? This is the very sort of attitude that allows problems like bullying to persist.

Yes the mother should call the school op.

GokTwo · 07/03/2015 19:08

Having said that you'd hope if it was the first time they'd seen her chest they'd had a quiet word with her on her own.

ApocalypseNowt · 07/03/2015 19:51

Idefix I know what you mean but I don't think it's the reporting of cheating per se that everyone is having a problem with. Personally I think it's the group of them all telling together that..i don't know...just sits a bit uncomfortably with me iykwim.

In all honesty did everyone single one of the group (and if they're to be believed the class) definitely see for themselves this girl cheat?

Jux · 07/03/2015 19:51

Teacher is told by pupils that a fellow pupil cheated.
Teacher checks it out and fucks up by mentioning a name.
Other pupils say they told too.

Cheater goes home and tells mum she's being bullied.
OR school have told mum that cheater cheated and mum is trying to ensure the rumour mill gives out a story where cheater is actually whiter than white, and it's everybody else's fault.

Talk to the school about the effect it's had on your dd, but beyond that keep out.

MovingOnUpMovingOnOut · 07/03/2015 19:56

Shock Grin GokTwo

LIZS · 07/03/2015 19:58

Cheating is a Saturday detention at dc school, first time or not. Sounds like the mum is trying to minimise it and drag everyone else into her/her dd's issue. If it was something like a vocab test or formulae the issue would be self evident.

BoneyBackJefferson · 07/03/2015 20:15

Hakluyt
"Telling tales is for when someone is really hurt or really upset."

I'm hoping that this post is a joke.

Hakluyt · 07/03/2015 20:31

"Hakluyt
"Telling tales is for when someone is really hurt or really upset."

I'm hoping that this post is a joke."

No. Why?

BoneyBackJefferson · 07/03/2015 20:37

because if they get away with cheating now, and they carry on, there is a very real probability that they will cheat in major exams and, if caught, will have their exam paper ripped up resulting in a unclassified grade.

Hakluyt · 07/03/2015 20:41

I agree. What's that got to do with telling tales?

Stillill · 07/03/2015 20:42

But that's their problem, Boney. Why involve yourself in someone else's issue and run and tell tales?

Cheating is wrong but let the perpetrator get caught and be dealt with - they will at some point. It doesn't affect anyone else.

In adult life, if your friend was cheating on their partner would you run straight off and tell? Doubtful. You would probably let your friend know you thought it was wrong etc and maybe decide to distance yourself but probably not go and tell the partner with all your other friends.

An exaggerated example but I'm trying to put it into some adult context.

Thymeout · 07/03/2015 20:45

When I was doing O levels, London board, we were told that if we were caught cheating we wouldn't be able to do any further exams with that board, or with London University.

Probably different now, but, it is still a big deal.

And so it should be, particularly with the plagiarism issue with coursework and the internet.

Thymeout · 07/03/2015 20:47

They are affected. She cheats to get top marks, everyone else is downgraded. What about the one who would have been top?

BoneyBackJefferson · 07/03/2015 20:48

hukluyt

Because, in this case, the teacher knows because someone told "tales".

still

It is their problem, but if they then cause a scene in the exam and disrupt others it becomes other people's problem.

Looking at your example their are plenty of posters on MN that say that they would tell if someone was cheating on their partner.

BoneyBackJefferson · 07/03/2015 20:50

Thymeout

I have known papers from a schools entire submission be "scrutinised" because of cheating.

Gruntfuttock · 07/03/2015 21:03

How is it possible for anyone to have the answers to a test written on their hands unless they know the questions? If they know the questions, how is it a test?

APlaceInTheWinter · 07/03/2015 21:10

Idefix I know what you mean but I don't think it's the reporting of cheating per se that everyone is having a problem with.
YY exactly.

The reason I'm uncomfortable with it is that actually unless it's blatantly obvious that someone is cheating then you can't be sure. So I'd expect someone to flag up their concern to the teacher but to be aware that they might have misinterpreted it.

I wouldn't have a discussion with a group of other people about it and then go to the teacher en-masse. That verges on gossiping and would cause me to question how much they actually did see.

Put it this way, if it was so obvious that a group of pupils could spot it then a teacher definitely should have spotted it. So either the teacher is completely incompetent or the group didn't all spot it but they had a chat about it and decided to proceed as a group. And that raises issues about who first mentioned they had witnessed the supposed cheating.

Cheating is serious. That's why any accusation of it should be made with caution and any cases should be treated seriously.

Then, in this case, there is the additional complication that the girl involved has already said she felt bullied during the summer for being too perfect. Adding it all together, this entire incident seems like it could be about something other than cheating.

AcrossthePond55 · 07/03/2015 21:25

Well, sometimes we get caught off guard and get more involved than we would have if we'd had time to think. I'm sure that's what happened to OP when the girl's mum called. Hindsight 20/20 etc.

I'd ask DD what she wanted me to do. Does she want you to talk to the school or would she just prefer you let it drop? Will she come to you if she gets any guff from the alleged cheater or any of the group that told?

Thymeout · 07/03/2015 22:13

A place - these are 13/14 yr old girls. Even adults in a work situation would be more likely to go as a group with a complaint about a colleague. It's v rare to get a tip-off from one pupil. One pupil is a grass. A group of pupils is a delegation.

If she's sitting in the second to back row, the two girls either side and at least 3 in the back row could have seen her. If she's closer to the front, it could be more. Other girls could have seen the writing on her hands before or after the exam.

Just having the writing on her hands is enough for an accusation of cheating. You don't have to actually see her reading it and copying it in the exam.

Why isn't the other mother going to speak to the school? Surely that would be the first thing you'd do, especially if there'd been a history of bullying and your explanation of a 'false' accusation was that someone was jealous and was bullying other girls to back her up in making it. I think the school has spoken to her, but her dd is still denying it.

She's just trying to muddy the waters and deflect attention from what her dd has done, whether she believes her dd or not.

IreneA78 · 07/03/2015 22:19

I don't agree that her DD did the right thing by telling.I can't see what another students marks have to do with her.
Above all, nobody likes a snitch, neither pupils or teachers.Your DD would do well to learn that.

Callooh · 07/03/2015 22:24

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