To think that a lot of parents overestimate how much influence they have in how their DCS turn out?

[AndyWarholsOrange]

I was thinking about this after the most recent fight thread about SAHMs/WOHMs where one poster said something along the lines of a parent could stay at home until their DC was 18 and they could still turn out to be a dick.
I remember someone on a previous thread talking about the '3 P's' -personality, parenting and peers and I really agree with that. I think you can be an amazing parent but, if you have a child with a difficult temperant who then gets in with a 'bad crowd' as a teenager, they can go massively off the rails despite your best efforts.
Your ability to control what your DCs do diminishes rapidly as they get older especially when they reach secondary school age. We probably all know of families who have parented their DCs similarly and they turn out very differently.
It seems that the majority of people who have had poor parenting will have some degree of difficulty as an adult but that even 'perfect' parenting won't guarantee that your DCs turn out OK. Which is a bit depressing.

Oh I was just pondering that on the film board. We are discussing the film Boyhood. Anyway, I think you have a good point. Scary as it is! All you can do is hope your efforts sink in.

Totally agree, I was well parented but very naive and gullible as a teenager and I totally believe that if I had come across someone nasty who would have introduced me to something bad like hard drugs, I could easily have turned out differently!

It also annoys me with small children that some parents who have children that eat well, sleep well etc by their own accord seem to think it's because of their fantastic parenting.

I agree OP.

I'm not sure I do find it depressing, tbh, because none of us are perfect anyway. Also, whilst it doesn't absorb us of all blame if our dcs have difficulties, I think you can deal better with (say) a troubled teen if you aren't constantly looking for reasons to beat yourself up for having caused it.

I remember years ago, sitting with my friend who was in tears over her teenage dd, who was going through a terrible time. My friend was saying that she should never have been a mother, had ruined her children's lives, pointing to x, y and z that she had done or failed to do. I was trying to tell her that it really wasn't like that, but she said I didn't understand because my own dds were small. She said I would never face these issues because I was "doing everything right" in terms of this huge list of things she was using as a stick to beat herself with.

Fast forward 10 years - her dd is now an adult and doing well, albeit after a rocky few years. Her other child is happy and thriving and never had the same problems, despite spending his younger years with his sister and all the chaos that her behaviour caused, including a mother who was driven to distraction. And I'm having to seek help about one of my own dds. I'm trying to get through it by remembering my own advice, that I gave to my friend all those years ago.

*absorb = "absolve" ! WTF?

I think good parenting is about equiping your children with the skills to make the right choices in life. However whether they choose to use them is down to personality and other outside influences.

I think that's a great way of putting it, Hedgehog.

I agree to a certain extent, but I think parenting has enough influence on a child that it is very significant when it comes to fundamental attitudes like a work ethic, how we treat other people, attitude to achievement and such like.

Teenagers can easily go off the rails despite what parents do, but I think that on the whole, if they have been instilled with positive attitudes as children, they will come back to that once they have established themselves as individuals with their own minds.

Its being the voice in their head, the jiminy cricket that they carry around. They might not always listen but if they do most of the time thats all you can hope for!

All you can do is give them a good base to work from. From there you let go, cross your fingers and hope for the best.

I spose there wouldn't be boarding schools if parents were the be all and end all.

I've not found that so far as a foster carer. It's all been mine and my families input. And an enormous amount of state funding.

If a child comes unable to read/write/wash and never really had a hug due to complete neglect of all of their needs and ten years later they leave with 9As and Bs at Gcse, 4 a levels, and go off to uni as an independant person able to care for themselves and having a well rounded personality it won't be because of their personality or temperament much.

I've found so far it's mostly nurture.

There's no such thing really as a perfect upbringing. Overly permissive parenting and inappropriate boundaries can lead children to seeking out thrills they shouldn't. Unlimited money or Internet access are rarely helpful. A lack of purpose or activities to do can also encourage children to mooch about and get into trouble.

That is the big debate, isn't it, how a personality is shaped. My mum belongs to "the traumatic school" and is convinced that everything you do a as a parent affects your child. Personally I think that children model their behaviour after their parents much more than parental instruction (they do as you do, not as you say). But friends and teachers also have a massive impact as does what they experience during their childhood.

My DCs are very different, DD takes after me, but also her dad, and DS is similar, he takes after his dad, but also me. It's like they have picked some personality traits from each of us.

Definitely Dixie - I could easily have watched 3 teenagers go off the rails unless I was there to watch them.

My best mate went part time when hers were teenagers as they needed her more then than as a primary school child.

As a mother of two boys who are a different as chalk and cheese I totally agree! I had no idea how little influence I would have on their personalities but it is pointless to try to change them. In fact I'm starting to think that they have more influence over each other than I have over them.
Its my job to equip them with the sense that they were born with

I disagree. I think most of us completely underestimate the influence we have to shape our children. Not only underestimate it, but also misunderstand it.

A human baby is born completely emotionally undeveloped. By 3yrs they are more than half way done. By 8 their base personality is pretty much set in stone.

From birth to 8 every single emotional experience and social interaction causes the brain to hardwire lessons and learnt behaviours. This development has much more to do with how often they are smiled at than whether or not there is a SAH parent.

And as for siblings, it is impossible to bring up two children exactly the same.

i really believed in nurture over nature until i had my second child, she was just so completely different from the moment she showed her personality.

I now just hope i can instill some morals into them :)

I agree with you AndyWarhol'sOrange and others.

I also find it a bit depressing that after so much support, attention and hard work, a child or young adult can make poor choices again and again.

This has been one of my friends' experiences. I suppose her ds is still finding his way and will get there eventually.

What worries me is that she's a fantastic person and parent in my eyes, but sees herself as a failure because of her adult son's decisions.

It got me thinking - how much do I see my kids' happiness and success -or lack of - in life as a reflection of my parenting.

If you think of yourself, how much has your upbringing affected you?

I personally think that my upbringing has affected me lots. I am an academic just like my parents and I spend a disproportionate amount of money and time on good food, just like my parents. But I am not a teacher like both my parents, I tried, but I was rubbish at it. I work as a freelance translator, I'm selfemployed. So career wise I am very different to my parents. And I think that is a personality thing whereas my education and interest in food was influence from my parents.

I think parenting plays a role in very general terms - in particular, a difficult start in life is very hard for children to overcome. But that's all really - once your parents are adequate, better parenting doesn't really make that much difference. Other factors play a much bigger role.

My dh had great parents. But one of his brothers is dead of drug and alcohol abuse and dh has suffered mental health problems for much of his life.

My sister and I had frankly fairly average parenting (my Mum was a lone parent and my teenage years were very freerange to say the least) but in terms of outcomes we've done an awful lot better.

Well of course, as with most things, it depends.

My DD is driven and successful and generally popular with everyone ..so clearly I had a massive influence on her.

My DS1 who irritatingly unmotivated and lazy atm has obviously taken nothing from my parenting.

DS2 - too early too say. Jury is still out......

And dead BIL's son (my nephew) had the worst parenting imaginable - both parents abused drugs and alcohol, he spent periods in care - and he's a delightful, hardworking young man.

My sister and I are very like our (almost completely absent) father in terms of personality and career choices...

I'm not saying that parenting doesn't have a big impact, of course it does, just that there are lots of other variables which are beyond the parents' control.
And I definitely think that everyone is born with innate temperant traits which also make a huge difference. Having said that, the belief that personality is set in stone at the age of 7/8 is changing and more psychologists now think that personality is still quite 'plastic' until late 20's. That's certainly true in my case. I was also thinking about this when watching news about young people going off to join IS and how many of them seem to come from 'normal' loving families.
I think I got very lucky with DD who is the most confident child I've ever met and I don't put that down to my brilliant parenting. She just seemed to be born that way whereas DS1 has always been incredibly anxious.

Dh parents are shy, conventional, curtain twitching, left school at 16. They struggle socially and have very few friends.

Dh is confident, popular, went to Oxbridge and has a successful career managing difficult situations. When people meet his parents they are . Makes me more relaxed about my parenting!