To think that a lot of parents overestimate how much influence they have in how their DCS turn out?

[AndyWarholsOrange]

I was thinking about this after the most recent fight thread about SAHMs/WOHMs where one poster said something along the lines of a parent could stay at home until their DC was 18 and they could still turn out to be a dick.
I remember someone on a previous thread talking about the '3 P's' -personality, parenting and peers and I really agree with that. I think you can be an amazing parent but, if you have a child with a difficult temperant who then gets in with a 'bad crowd' as a teenager, they can go massively off the rails despite your best efforts.
Your ability to control what your DCs do diminishes rapidly as they get older especially when they reach secondary school age. We probably all know of families who have parented their DCs similarly and they turn out very differently.
It seems that the majority of people who have had poor parenting will have some degree of difficulty as an adult but that even 'perfect' parenting won't guarantee that your DCs turn out OK. Which is a bit depressing.

I meant to add, that it doesn't matter what setting that encouragement comes from. As long as it is there. That's why I don't think it matters if you work in or out of the home. Just that whoever is looking after your child is providing this basic stimulation and emotional warmth.

One of the nice things about being older is that you can look back and see whether any of the things you thought were a big issue in your 20's really mattered that much 30 years on.
Dh and I both keep in touch with a group of about 12 couples who were our friends from secondary school onwards, who have children ( 2 -4 children per couple) Some of us were strict on discipline, some made a point of being free and easy a few of us, like me, were rather incompetent and just muddled through. All of the children seem to have turned out just fine, some artistic. some academic, some very practical and all far more socially assured and confident than we were at their ages
( and better looking, can't understand how every one under 25 is so very attractive these days when we were chubby and spotty). I think that provided children have the basics the finer tuned issues of child rearing are irrelevant. Thank goodness I wasn't the one with the belief in pre-natal reading and flash cards from birth.

I would add 2 things to the 3 P's of parenting - poverty and adverse childhood events

parenting just needs to be 'good enough'. Neglectful and abusive parenting can be hugely damaging as can living in poverty and adverse childhood events.

But with 'good enough' parenting peers and personality come in to play much more.

detective I'm so sorry that happened to you and your son. I'm glad that you have been able to step in and make that difference. I wish you both all the best and with your love and support I'm sure you both will get there

My 2.9 year old never listens to me so I think I am failing already!

Thanks Ineedtimeoff. I'm so grateful that I can take time off now, and throw everything I have got to making up for lost time. And there is a good year plus of lost time to make up from.

The speed of his development is phenomenal. I'd be here all day wittering on about it.

I should also add, I don't believe that speech delay etc means there is anything wrong with what a parent is doing.

It's just that in my case, my child would have progressed at the usual pace, had he had that stimulation and development. It's really clear to see now he has the input.

I've just seen the irony in your name Ineedtimeoff and my first sentence!

The nature/nurture debate: a journalist once asked the behavioral psychologist Donald Hebb whether a person’s genes or environment mattered most to the development of personality. Hebb replied that the question was akin to asking which feature of a rectangle—length or width—made the most important contribution to its area.
I like this.

ashtray, that's great - I am so going to use that!

Family dynamic also makes a difference to how you turn out - position in family, temperament of siblings and parents. These things aren't really controllable.
I have a teen DS who is a bit of a mystery to the rest of us. Even his sister commented recently that her eldest brother is so different from the rest of the family. He doesn't join in family banter, he is very private and separate ( we don't know his friends and he hates to be asked about what he's doing. )
And yes re teenagers getting in with inappropriate crowds and behaviours it is very humbling when this happens to your DC and you realise you are surrounded by other good 'parents' whose DC's are in some people's eyes also 'off the rails' - you often simply cannot blame the parents or see why this has happened . I've certainly learnt to not be judgmental in the way that I would have been !