I am annoyed that women HAVE to care for their DCs and elderly parents.

[Moniker1]

This is the phrase that is trotted out constantly here and in government speeches, on Women's Hour on Radio 4.

And I feel it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The more that it is said, the more those family members who could and should also be involved in caring responsibilities can duck behind the parapet and shrug it off as not their problem, eg DHs, the siblings of the person who does do the bulk of the caring.

This is a quote from the MI5 thread 'Ms Blears claimed there could be an issue for women with children when MI6 officers needed to travel abroad. (BBC website)'

How sad! That this should be flagged up this early in any debate about recruitment. Middle aged women of course have their DPs to look after so I suppose that excludes them too.

I feel as far as elderly rellies go that ALL of their offspring should be responsible for their care, perhaps a system like the CSA to fund their care so all family HAVE to contribute in money if not actual care, as it so often falls on one female family member. I don't want to debate how bad the CSA, just throwing it up as an idea.

I have no plans to be cared for by my DDs in old age, I hope I can afford to pay someone else to help out, then move to a care home once that is what is needed.

But we need a change of attitude. So care is considered everyone's problem not only the female members of families. And perhaps women would then be a bit slower to step into the role and take on sole responsibility.

I work within the nhs and its about 50:50 male, female family divide with sons, daughters, nieces, nephews bringing in elderly members and caring for them on a daily basis with a considerable amount having a family member living with them or around the corner. You be surprised how many multi generations houses there are. During time we get talking and all the family members dont see it as a problem caring for a family member as they do it as they love the person. The ones with a problem are the patients as they worried about being a burden on their family member. Cant tell you about the lower age range as from my sister experience that does tend to mostly be woman.

My parents are elderly and obsessed with the idea of being a burden but they are very bad at making the decisions that would really reduce the burden on their children.

Agreed, maybe we will see a sea change soon with women increasingly refusing to shoulder these burdens?
?

Women don't have to care for elderly parents and DC's.

I think will be a long time and take a lot more change in societies attitude to women generally before they are no longer seen a the default carer, sadly.

Women still tend often to be the main communicators within a family unit. Think: who most often does all the b.day cards, xmas cards, phone calls about GC, catering for family events, etc.? Then become the 'go to' person for caring or organising the care for the frail or elderly within the family. It's deeply entrenched.

The family linchpin

I was going to say linchpin! But it looked odd written down

No-one has to care for their elderly parents. But I have to say I've seen a lot of men do this as well as women.

And of course women should care for their children. If they want to share the physical care with their children's father they should a) be clear about that prior to conception b) pick who they have children with carefully

londonrach - oh that is interesting. Ime it is the DD living nearest who takes on responsibility. Glad that it is becoming a shared job.

There are regularly debates on why women earn less than men, why they are less promoted and the assumption is that childrearing responsibilities reduce career prospects in a big way. But I'd prefer if it was phrased as 'in some cases' taking time out for child care might reduce women's opportunities. So that it can't be brushed aside as 'Oh, women have children' so are not equally in the running/ or there is an unspoken assumption that women are not going to reach the same levels at work due to this.

It's a circular process, women earn less and don't reach senior positions because caring responsibilities mean that they can't commit themselves to careers to the same extent that men can.

And then the caring responsibilities 'naturally' fall to women because their jobs are less important, not as senior, less well paid than the mens?

countess
Women don't have to care for elderly parents and DC's.

No they don't.
'Women have to care for..' - I think it is the phrase I object to as it can mean women MUST look after or women DO look after iyswim.

Either way it sounds a bit like a foregone conclusion about women's responsibilities.

Maybe say 'Women can have caring responsibilities' - sorry if it sounds like splitting hairs but we hear 'Women have to care for...' all the time.

In my family it is those who are retired and most healthy/active who do the looking after
Some men some women - weird that it is described as a gendered act

Suzanne
Yes, but women also earn less even if they don't have caring responsibilities. So another foregone conclusion affecting women - they will earn less and therefore more likely be the one chosen to give up work hours for whatever reason.

Women live longer than men still, on average, perhaps we should say women live longer therefore they can work for longer so they should be the one to stay in the workplace as they earn more in the long run.

Ronald
'Some men some women - weird that it is described as a gendered act'

Well why is it constantly discussed as women having to do the caring in the media???

You need to inform Womans Hour!!

I would object to it as a statement if I heard it, but it's not something I hear.
If they are really trotting it out on Radio 4 on a regular basis then I suggest you a) complain to Radio4 and b) listen to another station.

It is all old hangover, assumptive language.
Same as SAHMs. There are now lots of SAHDs - within the families I know but we never really discuss them.
I believe it is lazy journalism but it wouldn't make me more likely to look after my mother.
If we are lucky enough to get to that stage, my siblings and I will do it on a who it suits best at the time and suits mother scenario.

My mother is already in a wheelchair and fending off any and all help - so God knows how it will shake out. SIL wants to do it and has dibs it (I know, weird) as they have stacks in common, she doesn't work and as her mother died. Not because she feels she must or should or has been brainwashed

Agreed, but I think as the welfare state gets decimated, more and more women will be forced to care for elderly relatives. Care is very expensive and few people can afford to pay for it from their own money for more than a few years.

I bet it will be me! My two sisters live over 100 miles away and don't drive. They certainly will not make any effort. They don't now and DM is 90! There is only my DH around and he works very hard and I would not expect him to do it. It annoys me that my siblings do not come anywhere near and that has been going on for 30 plus years!

And I am of the age where many friends are having to care for elderly parents. I have lost track of how many of them say their brothers refuse to do more than occasionally visit elderly parents. There will be men out there who do care for elderly parents, but it is largely women who take on this role.

Monniker you make a very valid point, there does seem to a government, employers preconception that women HAVE to care for elderly relatives. This needs to be challenged by us all.

I have lost track of how many of them say their brothers refuse to do more than occasionally visit elderly parents

This is my experience though not as extreme. But in OP I suggested the siblings being obliged to pay towards some care, or pay the carer, imo this would help, there would be 'care' money around to pay trained carers to help out.

DF has just moved into a nursing home and it's been my brothers organising most of it as I live on the other side of the world. I'll be going back each month as DF is terminally ill but with two tiny children here, I'm absolutely stuck in terms of being in two places at once. Think it depends on the family to be honest.

Also - I don't think choldren should be obliged to pay for their parents. What if they are NC? Everyone needs to make provision for themselves for when the time comes.

The standard societal assumption is that women are carers and men breadwinners. It is EXPECTED that women do the caring.
This is why we have the phrase "working mother" but not the phrase "working father".
Men are assumed by default to carry on working and have the important career. Men are not asked "do you think you working full time will harm your children's early years?"
Childcare is framed continuously as a female issue to be solved by the individual mother.

Most couples interviewed for studies put the man's career first. Not all couples, but most, even those women who talk about a career often make compromises after childbirth. Some men do, but a far smaller number of them.

As the men's earning power goes up their caring tasks and time spent at home goes down. Effectively they "buy themselves out" of housework, childcare etc due to their increased earning power. This doesn't play the same with women and their earnings before children.

Caring for elderly relative falls into the "caring" definition so it assumed to stay with women, normally the daughter, then the daughter in law - then the men might join in.

So, if we look back to the mumsnet survey at the end of last year you can clearly see that women do 70% of household work, childcare and kin work (relatives and friends maintenance) so it is a self fulfilling prophecy, women feel they should do it, so women do it, so it becomes normal that women do it, it's expected, men don't see it as their issues...round and round we go.