I am annoyed that women HAVE to care for their DCs and elderly parents.

[Moniker1]

This is the phrase that is trotted out constantly here and in government speeches, on Women's Hour on Radio 4.

And I feel it is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The more that it is said, the more those family members who could and should also be involved in caring responsibilities can duck behind the parapet and shrug it off as not their problem, eg DHs, the siblings of the person who does do the bulk of the caring.

This is a quote from the MI5 thread 'Ms Blears claimed there could be an issue for women with children when MI6 officers needed to travel abroad. (BBC website)'

How sad! That this should be flagged up this early in any debate about recruitment. Middle aged women of course have their DPs to look after so I suppose that excludes them too.

I feel as far as elderly rellies go that ALL of their offspring should be responsible for their care, perhaps a system like the CSA to fund their care so all family HAVE to contribute in money if not actual care, as it so often falls on one female family member. I don't want to debate how bad the CSA, just throwing it up as an idea.

I have no plans to be cared for by my DDs in old age, I hope I can afford to pay someone else to help out, then move to a care home once that is what is needed.

But we need a change of attitude. So care is considered everyone's problem not only the female members of families. And perhaps women would then be a bit slower to step into the role and take on sole responsibility.

DH and I cared for his mother in our home, until her death, together. Not once did he play the be-penised card to avoid any of the un-fun tasks, including personal care, which involved not only waste products, but also spitting, hitting and distinctly donkey-esque kicking aimed for whichever crotch was nearest.

The world and its cousin thought the sun shone out of his arse for that.

Whereas it was something I was supposed to do.

I love DH. I am delighted he didn't use his willy status to dump the bulk of the load on me. It certainly showed him as somebody who commits in deed as well as word. But I got very hacked off with people telling me I was lucky.

I didn't feel very lucky. What with all the bruises, the sleep deprivation and the deeply traumatised vulva.

But the vulva did appear to be the main reason why I was lucky, and he was the village SuperStar of Wonderment.

When people yak on about how wonderful "the rest of Europe" are about caring for the elderly in the family, what they often fail to realise is there is an army of knackered, stretched to their limits and not all that infrequently abused women who are paying the rather unattractive price for the superficial appearance of familial utopia.

As an extension to what Bonsoir is saying, I think we are doomed to care.
Our nature as women is to care and nourish, therefore some of us find it very hard to not care if we care about somebody. I think it is our biology due to the childrearing aspects of our beings. You can all shoot me now, but I think there is a link. Maybe men should be forced to spend paternity leave alongside their wives/girlfriends and by law share the load.

Fundamentally disagree Qunit, this idea that women are hard wired by nature to care, it's a social construct.
Any hard wiring is mediated by the society we are born into, and therefore is not true hard wiring in the sense that it is commonly used, ie as analogous to instinctive / inborn behavior.

There is no way to separate and identify the individual effects of nature and nurture when it comes to human behavior, the two are inextricably woven together ?

"My parents are elderly and obsessed with the idea of being a burden but they are very bad at making the decisions that would really reduce the burden on their children."

Bonsoir, this is my position too. I'm only only child so by default it comes to me. What I have noticed is that 'the system' expects a) everyone to live within 10 mins of their elderly parents and b) to be able to drop everything and be available for ferrying to the hospital, discussions with doctors, care assessments etc during the day with not much notice. I had to repeatedly tell people this wasn't possible. The fact that I have a child of my own to look after was taken more seriously than was the fact I work full time as a barrier to this. Don't know how different that is for men but there might at least be the expectation then that they work.

The "system" does indeed expect availability of able-bodied adult children to do the things you describe, GooseberryJam. I am also the default person for the job (my only sister has very good reasons to be less available than I am) and I live in Paris whereas my parents live in SE England. I have, however, found that individuals are generally highly sympathetic to the constraints on my availability and do a great deal to override the system to give us appointments at times convenient to me.

I made it quite clear to Social Services at the start (when DF died) that none of us were available to care for DM. I was pleased to see in her notes that the Social Woker had written "Family are supportive but not available to provide care" due to our existing committments and the distance we live from DM.

When she has been in hospital I also find myself repeating over and over to the staff that we don't live nearby, so can't help. Didn't stop them forgetting to implement her care package when they discharged her from hospital but by goodness they soon realised that heads would roll if they didn't get someone out to my DMs house pronto once I got on the phone to them. You may not be nearby but there is a lot you can do from a distance.

My parents are baby boomers who are now in rented accomadation working their way via First Class Travel through their savings with no thought as to the cost of any car they may need.

When my Dad expressed concern for what would happen to him 'if my Mum goes before him', he was told by my Mum..."dont worry Oldraver will look after you"...no bloody mention of my brother stepping up

shit....cost of any CARE... but also a new car every couple of years