AIBU to object to a customer referring to one of my team as "the bird behind the counter"?

[soundsystem]

And WIBU to say something about it?

I work in food retail and got an email from a customer with a suggestion (actually quite a good suggestion). He said he'd "told the bird behind the counter" but she didn't seem interested. To be honest, I suspect his attitude in "telling" her probably contributed to this - she's normally quite receptive to ideas and generally a smiley, polite person.

People like Burke really make you re think your world view don't they ? Not for the better either.

I read Burke's post and then had to check I hadn't accidentally sat on a switch in my time machine and ended up at Downton bloody Abbey.

Sorry for lack of update, as soon as my phone lets me type more than one sentence without crashing I'll update properly

Oh ffs

I just KNEW someone would come out with this kind of crap on this thread. Just because a few dense ignoramuses use an offensive word without even having sensitivity to the historical context of it, it doesn't make it right. As a black woman Id be offended if I heard it - and the non-black friends I have would NEVER use it, just as I wouldn't call them a racially offensive word. Its not "ok" its lowminded

As to the "bird" thing - it may not sound so bad to some, but if it offends a woman then it has to be accepted. Even if customer wasn't intending offence, he chose not to address a woman correctly and her reaction can't be chosen for her. Offensive terms are not "alright" just because the person using them deems them so, or comes out with that dry old line of "well all my friends say it"

What's the betting Burke is a man ?

Notrevealingmyidentity yes I'm a man. I'm not sure how the fact that my reproductive organs are on the outside instead of the inside are in any way relevant to this topic, but if it is somehow relevant I'm sure you will enlighten me.

Burke, sorry to throw this out there but if you live in the UK then it's also somewhat offensive to refer to people as 'blacks' and 'whites'.

And referring to mixed race people as 'coloured' isn't because you think it's the most appropriate word, it's because you think your choice to call them something politically incorrect and historically insensitive trumps their choice to find that way of talking about them abhorrent. There are acceptable alternatives. You know there are acceptable alternatives. You are active online, you don't live on a remote island stuck several decades in the past.

Growing up up North in an area with virtually no black or brown people, I went to uni down South still thinking that people with South Asian heritage were referred to as 'black'. I would never have thought that 'brown' was a term actually in use. I would also never have dreamed of referring to a brown person as black a single solitary minute after learning the truth, just because I felt it was 'appropriate' due to the language norms of my upbringing...

'Bird' is a slang word/term used to describe a woman. I'm a woman, and DO NOT find the word /reference/terminology offensive, as I recognise its a slang word, and mature enough to understand that different age groups have different ethics/standards. HOWEVER I'm also aware that other people may find the word/term/expression offensive so I wouldn't use the word in a professional context or addressing someone I didn't know as its inappropriate.

If the person who originally used the word 'bird' in his feedback to the op collegue/member of staff - the most appropriate route for the op to give him feedback would be via his line manager to suggest in future that he uses more appropriate language.

There are various slang words, to describe gender, ethnicity ect that some people may find offensive, and are deemed inappropriate in today's society, however these do change regionally and may mean different things to people but the word 'bird' is something surely that isn't something to get so upset about???

Bird is a little antiquated but isn't it equivalent to 'bloke' or 'guy'? Is the customer Terence Stamp!

think it depends on the region you live. Bird, chick, cock, duck, our lass, old lass and Mrs are all words used locally to describe women in the area I live. For men it's guy, bloke, our kid and mate

@passthewine - I live in an area with the same terms. However, so many are offensive to women that I avoid their use and challenge when I can.

@burke1 - the fact you even use such terminology jokingly is abhorrent. I don't care that your, er, clan seem to think it's acceptable; it's not.

Have you no idea of the history of that word? Of what it represents? Disgusting.

I know of 'bird' as being a slang term. I'm not aware of hearing it used in a sexist way, only by my sister who used to work in London and probably had it used 'on' her rather a lot, so uses it with some irony, perhaps defensively. I've used it a couple of times. On MN recently. I won't any more.

Morning all. Just wanted to post a reminder of our Talk Guidelines www.mumsnet.com/info/netiquette and draw your attention to the parts on racist language. We understand that there may not be racist abuse per se going on on this thread but we think that the N-word is pretty much beyond the pale regardless of context. The word does tend to cause offence, understandably, and we have had reports about its use here. We think in this case the important thing is where offence is taken rather than whether it was intended. For that reason we have deleted a few posts where the word was used. If you could refrain from using the term again that would be very helpful.

Hi Iona, thank you for posting. I understand this, I'll reply to comments made by Waffles but won't use the actual word (hopefully this will be fine but if it's not don't hesitate to let me know)

Waffles80 of course I understand the history of that word and what it represents, I oppose racial discrimination of any kind. In our clan the long term members have sometimes built up friendships over years, friendships between people of all skin colours. When using the word we use, it's not meant in the context of the original meaning, it's used ironically. As people of all skin colours have used the word to describe people of all other skin colours, we're humorously implying that we don't give a crap about each others colour, we're good friends and that's all that counts. Your opinion is irrelevant in this case. If you chose to take offence at something that's not really my problem at all, it's yours because YOU are the one who has taken offence. If you don't like it I won't make you stay and listen.

Oh, you're being ironically racist. Well that's ok then.

(Just in case you misunderstand the above...it's not ok! Still racist. Still despicable.)

Yanbu to say something back sarcastically or deadpan like...
...'yes, what colour feathers did she have?'

Waffles80 if you've made your mind up and jumped to the wrong conclusion then nothing I can say will change your mind. I will point out that we're clearly not being racist. In fact, what we are doing is making fun of racism, showing how outdated and backward a concept it is, and mocking those who hold racist views. The clan is made up of people who have known each other for months, sometimes even years, there are people of all skin colours. The use of that word is humorously referencing the fact that we're a close knit community that don't give a fig about what the other players skin colours are. Like I said without being part of the community, you wouldn't really get it, and it's understandable why you'd make a mistake and assume that we were racist, and I'll let it pass.

Burke, I suggest you take a course in sociolinguistics before suggesting that what you're doing when using that word is 'mak[ing] fun of racism' and 'referencing the fact [...] that [you] don't give a fig about what the other players skin colours are'.

You're collectively reaffirming your exclusionary 'in-group' status by breaking perceived 'offensive' language boundaries. In other words, you're all saying 'are you really my friend? Are you still my friend if I say this naughty word in front of you? Yes! You are! I feel accepted and har har har we all know it's an inside joke and other outside people aren't involved in our joke'.

It has absolutely nothing to do with combating/demonstrating your opposition to racism. What wishful thinking utter bollocks.

Absolutely Smillas. Sadly, I don't think Burke by name and nature will comprehend.

People who claim to have no hang ups about skin colour yet call friends by racist terms (whats wrong with "mate", or something?!) are ridiculous. You don't share the same experience of race/racism particularly that experience in the western world so where's the "humour" in that?

clan..? where you show affinity by using racist terms freely? How odd

MistressDeeCee, I'll just point out that 'clan' will be the proper term for it. It's termed a 'guild' in other games. No idea which game it is Burke is talking about. It's just a group chat within a game and you tend to recruit people to do activities in the game from there because you know them better and it's easier to organise a team with people you know.

SmillasSenseOfSnow correct it's basically a group of guys and girls with a gaming server, a website, forum etc. We do sometimes play on other servers but mostly just on our own. True it is just a game at the end of the day, but if you're playing with the same group of people over months and years, you inevitably end up chatting about out of game stuff and develop friendships. And with all friendships, sometimes you playfully call someone a name. Our rules accept that there is a difference between playful namecalling and namecalling with a genuine intent to cause upset/offence. No one will care if I call a friend a "jammy f*er" for killing me in game, but if a random person starts randomly throwing that word around at people he doesn't know for no real reason, then that's clearly different, because there is intent to cause real offence. We don't tolerate racism on the server, there's a specific rule against it. Fortunately we don't get many racists joining and the few who do end up being banned very quickly once they are reported.

Thanks Smilla Ive heard of guild, but not clan

Given its a clannish thing it seems odd to refer to the N word - on a thread that wasn't even about it in the 1st place - so openly. If that nonsense must go on then keep it in the clan, surely..it has no relevance or context here save for aiming to condone the use of an ugly word with years of evil racism behind it. Whether its used by black or white people, it remains the same...lowminded

My point was that sometimes the intent behind a word is more important than the actual word itself. The same word can be both offensive and not offensive depending on the context its said.