AIBU to object to a customer referring to one of my team as "the bird behind the counter"?

[soundsystem]

And WIBU to say something about it?

I work in food retail and got an email from a customer with a suggestion (actually quite a good suggestion). He said he'd "told the bird behind the counter" but she didn't seem interested. To be honest, I suspect his attitude in "telling" her probably contributed to this - she's normally quite receptive to ideas and generally a smiley, polite person.

Oh for goodness sake, it's clear he didn't mean any offence by it, and that's what really counts when someone claims to be "offended".

It's not. Not at all.

If what has been said perpatuates discrimination it's not ok.

perpetuates

iPhone malfunction

I'm not sure that it does.

yes Burke you're right. It's fine to refer to people however you want as long as you don't intend any offence

modelling acceptable language?

You sound like you're speaking to a three year old.

I think administering a patronising slap on the wrist would be unprofessional.

In very very simple terms.

One person uses pejorative language, acts on it = not a big problem.

Thousands, nay, millions of people the world over use pejorative language, act on it, normalise it, ingrain it into social structures = pretty big problem.

Now, as individuals, challenging millions of sexists is tricky. Challenging hundreds very difficult. Challenging one, whenever encountered, is easy. And the more people who challenge that one ignoramus, the easier it gets for others to challenge those with offensive views.

Now, here comes a more complicated bit. It isn't easy to change one thing by 100%; it's usually easier to change 100 things by one %.

It's called "aggregation of marginal gains"; I hope the OP has mentioned that the word "bird" when applied to a person, a woman, is offensive, and not just to one woman, and that it's not without consequence, because if millions of people have that attitude well, well, women would be second class citizens throughout the world.

So, any update OP?

Burke you are a burk indeed if you don't believe it matters how we address people. The problem is that clearly this customer sees no offence in it and that in itself is the problem! Some people have sexism ingrained and that's why we have to pull people up on it and educate them as to why it causes offence. If this term is acceptable then what's the equivalent term for a man? Cock? I'm pretty sure it would seen as offensive if I emailed someone saying 'that cock behind the counter who served me'!

I'm guessing he didn't mean any offense, but it would do no harm to politely point out to him that the turn of phrase is seen as demeaning to women. Along with thanks for his suggestion.

Thank him first, obviously.

Burke Are you the customer in question? As I gather it was a grown woman behind the counter, to refer to her as poultry is directly rude and offensive. It has been offensive for decades, and you don't have to be "posh" to recognise that.

OP; I would reply with something along the lines of

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your kind suggestion, which we take into consideration.

I'm not sure which member of our team you are referring to. Calling her a "bird" is both unhelpful and offensive, so I am unable to follow up on that aspect of your email.

kind regards,

Soundsystem

He didn't literally mean that she was a bird that flies, it's a well-known nickname for a woman, you don't seriously think he mistook her for being poultry?

Offence is something that you chose to take. Just because you find something offensive doesn't mean it actually is in the minds of the person who said the word, or the minds of others. I don't think he was really being offensive, if he wanted to be sexist there's a number of words he could have used to make that intention very clear.

My reply would be along the lines of

'Thank you so much for your suggestion, I will suggest that this is put in place.
I am however very concerned about this bird you saw behind the counter. As it's a food service area this is a very serious matter. Was it a pigeon? Did you see how it got in? etc etc....'

Him having to reply explaining that when he said bird he meant woman should be self illuminating, and you can always claim complete naivety.

It should be obvious that he didn't mean an actual bird, I can't believe that people would be that dense.

Over on Chat there's a thoroughly depressing thread about sexism posters have personally encountered in the workplace. Maybe some people should pop over and have a read of it.
It's not acceptable at all to refer to a woman as 'a bird' as I would bet that most people defending it would be mightily pissed off if they were referred to in that way.

Burke Casual sexism is still sexism. There's no harm in gently suggesting that he not be sexist.
Also, your suggestion that you can call someone whatever as long as there was no offence intended is moronic. 'I just called you the N-word in a jokey way!! Funny, right? Right? Guys?'

Burke Feel that ruffle in your hair? That's this thread going completely over your head.
Nobody has thought he meant an actual bird.

Burke - do you go around referring to black people by the N word? A lot of women, myself included, find "bird" offensive. It is not used as a friendly term. It is used to demean and belittle. If you can't understand that then you are, to put it mildly, either hard of thinking or the sort of man (and believe me, we all recognise them when we encounter them) who deliberately uses the word, knowing women find it offensive and demeaning, but continues to do so anyway because he gets off on being offensive to women. In the unlikely event that you are a woman, have runner up in handmaiden of the week (I'm afraid I've already given first prize to a skid mark over on the relationships board).

My FIL regularly uses the word 'bint' to refer to women. I hate it and call him out on him, ie 'she's not a 'bint' FIL, she's a woman.' He tells me it's just a term and isn't offensive, it's just another way of saying 'woman'. He's wrong. If he seriously thought that, he'd just use 'woman'; he's being derogatory. As is a man who refers to a woman as a 'bird'.

He says in his email that the 'bird' in question didn't seem to take his suggestion seriously. This suggests he's a bit pissed off at her. He's consciously chosen to call her a 'bird' in his email to put her down. Would he have referred to her as 'that bird behind the counter' if she'd spent ages telling him what a great idea he'd had? I doubt it.

It's not a class issue.
It's not a case of people 'choosing to be offended'.
It's a way men with a lack of respect for women put them down.

I would have thought the response is quite simple.

Thank him for his suggestion, particularly as it sounds helpful but add that he must have been seeing things that day as, being a catering establishment, no animals or birds would be allowed on the premises except perhaps guide dogs.

Oh for goodness sake, it's clear he didn't mean any offence by it, and that's what really counts when someone claims to be "offended".

I'm confused why would that "count" at all? Lots of people think they aren't being offensive when they are racist or sexist? Farage would certainly tell you he isn't trying to be offensive.

Anyway OP you would not BU, sexism or racism should not be tolerated

No, that's just the most appropriate word in my mind to use.

Exactly, and I would call you a fucking idiot. It's just the most appropriate word to use in my mind.