To say loud and proud that it's better for my kids that I don't work

[yetanotherchangename]

There have been lots of threads about WOHM/SAHM at the moment, which frankly are beyond boring. HOWEVER on all of them I've seen SAHMs attacked (either for being naive, vacuous, lazy, money grabbing, downtrodden) etc., and I've seen a lot of SAHM explain why being at home is the only option for their family.

I've rarely if ever seen a SAHM openly say that it is a good thing for kids if they have a parent who doesn't work. I think we are too afraid of offending mothers who do work. Am I unreasonable to claim back some pride in what I am doing?

Yes she was posting week before last I think it was

The trouble with these threads is that once they've begun, people will then respond and defend their own point of view, which can give the impression that both 'sides' are equally responsible for being disrespectful to the other 'side'

I guess what we all ought to do is to look at who it is who actually starts the thread... Is it someone attacking WOHM or someone attacking SAHM? Because that's the crux really. Anyone can have strong views and may pile in to defend themself when they perceive their postion is being attacked. But it takes a different mindset to actually have the time and inclination to start a thread intended to just be nasty to people who do things differently to you.

Maybe if we all make a concerted effort to call anyone starting one of these threads on it, maybe just maybe, we'll see them dwindle ..

M

I just want to say I really object to the idea it's all about respecting people's choices. We don't use childcare because it would mean the loss of more than half of our income. It's actually cheaper to lose one of our incomes. I don't really see the SAH aspect of DP's or my life as a choice. It's also bullshit to treat reproduction as a lifestyle choice, like you don't deserve children if you are poor. Do fuck off.

Choice here is a rhetoric that covers up inequality, the inequalities between rich families and poor families, and the inequality between people who SAH or otherwise infringe on their working life in order to care for children (who are the economic backbone of our future) and those that don't.

People who can't understand why other couples arrange care for their children differently from how they might do it lack imagination and social empathy. What we should be worrying about is how childrearing which is so important for a society, is associated with such acute disadvantage in economic terms.

Also, deciding that SAH is by default not feminist is just a way of absorbing and reproducing the values that meant women have been historically disadvantaged. Child care and child rearing are meaningful and valuable and to say they aren't is denigrating the value of the work that mostly women do, it smacks of thinking something is shit through its historical association with women. I think it properly feminist to value childrearing and childcare, which absolutely is a kind of work, even if we afford it so little financial and cultural value.

bigblue you said on another thread that you're a witch and do magic spells etc, I may be putting two and two together and getting five but if this is how you earned your money in your own hours, from your own home with your children then I think you'll find that the vast majority wouldn't morally or seriously be able to do that.

You made your choices and that's fair enough, good for you earning a crust while staying home but why on earth are you so against other people doing things differently?

My mother (single parent - widowed when I was 8) had at times three jobs at once to support the two of us. How I wished when I was a child that she was home for me. I missed her being there when I got in from school, I loved being with her. It seemed like I was always watching the clock waiting for her to come home. My Nan lived with us though so I was lucky really as in a way she became my 'mum'.

It would definitely have been better for me if my mother hadn't worked, but it's just not always possible is it.

Fanfeckintastic- interesting!

Fanfeckintastic - oh please.

Have you nothing better to do than to troll through member's postings?

Fanfeckintastic

I don't think you want to upset her.

Also, welcome to MN, bigbluestars, where there is an advanced search facility.

And where people don't have anything better to do than to post on silly threads about WOHM/SAHM as well as checking up on pp's history.

If you don't want your previous posting history to come to light, change your nickname.

outsself
Good post

Childrearing and childcare should definitely be valued, in the same way that housework should. Some women (and some men) may aspire to do it and enjoy it as work full time, either of their own children or of any child.
In the same way that the vast majority may well prefer to do something else.

bigblue people have this thing called memory.

You post it. Someone will remember it! Just idiotic to think otherwise.

Can't believe this thread is still going on but great post Outsself.

Some people clearly have a lot of time on their hands

The vast majority of men and women prefer not to be in relationship with their young kids during the years they form attachments, nor to have long term stable attachment figures who love their kids caring for them during this time? Not so sure about this. I think few of us have free choice and biologically we are programmed to have cooperative kinship care available, which few of us do these days. In the absence of this, we all muddle through, making the best of what's available in our own situations.

We can bullshit all we like but it's an unfortunate truth that human babies are programmed to form enduring attachments with the people who care for them in their early years, and while they can absolutely form solid, secure attachments to a range of people including caring childminders (they reckon five to six attachments up to eighteen months), if you're in a situation like we are here where the local childminding facility was the subject of a Panorama type investigation where children were being flung to the floor, sworn at, had their fingers sellotaped behind their back and were left in high chairs with no stimulation for hours on end to the extent some were filmed rocking, you might not find it such a casual prospect to be described as though it were a bit of knitting or golf.

Childcare in the UK is, on the whole, well regulated and of decent quality so you can have this sort of idle chit chat about its value in a 'how many angels are there on the head of a pin' sort of way. Come live somewhere without those standards and see how that changes women's choices, and makes staying at home a very different prospect.

bigblue I would have no shame partaking in some lazy Saturday afternoon investigative browsing but advanced search doesn't work on my phone for some reason

I recall you from a couple of threads I've referenced already because your attitude to others and determination to shame really shocked me. Not long after I saw you saying you were in fact a witch!

fanfeckingtastic
Perhaps those research skills could be put to good use with some meaningful employment

Just a mediocre memory Pis, no skill involved. My employment is outside the home but this thread is giving me plenty of creative ideas.should I want to change that

Some people clearly have a lot of time on their hands

Or procrastinate.

Perhaps those research skills could be put to good use with some meaningful employment

You mean the MI5, don't you? :)

Of course

What is a shame is that employment takes us away from our children. It should not necessarily be like that.
More employers could allow employees to work from home, and more child care facilities should be provided nearer to where people work, or by large companies. But in large cities many of us have to commute, which is not ideal for children either.

Totally agree llewji

It wasn't a shame I was away from my DCit enabled my DH to care for them as well .

Sorry but I think its unrealistic too think that you can do a full on job from home and care for small DC at the same time , both usually demand your full attention.