To say loud and proud that it's better for my kids that I don't work

[yetanotherchangename]

There have been lots of threads about WOHM/SAHM at the moment, which frankly are beyond boring. HOWEVER on all of them I've seen SAHMs attacked (either for being naive, vacuous, lazy, money grabbing, downtrodden) etc., and I've seen a lot of SAHM explain why being at home is the only option for their family.

I've rarely if ever seen a SAHM openly say that it is a good thing for kids if they have a parent who doesn't work. I think we are too afraid of offending mothers who do work. Am I unreasonable to claim back some pride in what I am doing?

I think a lot of people take offence at things that are not actually designed to be offensive

Absolutely. I have pointed out comments not his thread where a poster has complained about compliments that can be taken as an insult and then added their own unintentional one.

I am happy with my choice, which was partly choice and partly due to redundancy. I don't care that others do and I am only really irritated by twattish comments which are clearly meant as judgements.

I believe I was very fortunate to make the choice to work half time outside my home once my children were two years old. I was happiest staying in a career a loved, while still being home most of the with my babies. I recognize that many women do not have that luxury. Working full time is necessity to provide for their families. I always wonder how single mums and dads feel when they read these types of threads.

soupDragon I disagree that looking after other people's children is respected, by the parents or by nursery employers. The pay and conditions for those in that field generally reflect that lack of respect.

Soup, in terms of value, the reason I would feel guilty for being a SAHM is that by 'working' as a SAHM I would be performing a job that when done for money plus generally be a minimum wage or thereabouts type job, as opposed to working out of the home where I earn much more, hence I feel more valuable there assuming my children are well looks after, stimulated an are thriving at nursery. Obviously the argument is very different is the salary for working doesn't or only just covers childcare with little left over. It would feel selfish to stay at home simply for my own benefit of enjoying being at home more than the stress of going out to work. If my salary isn't needed for day-to-day living and I worked essentially the question is what's the best use of the 'additional' money gained from working? Extra time with children by going part time, money saved up for the children's future (private school fees, uni fees, house deposit etc...), a more secure retirement or more money for hobbies and holidays or a bit of each?

wheelsonthebus "hence I feel more valuable there"

I don't measure my value in purely monetary terms though.

To me my most "valuable" roles was being a SAHM- despite the fact I could have earned far more than just a basic salary by working, but I chose not to.

I look on these threads with a kind of bewilderment, because I have to stand outside both options - I am physically unable to work and therefore at home with my teen and preteen.

What makes me sad is that there is so much comparative validation and justification of choices, as if the value of a person is measured by what they do. If I've learned anything through years of illness it's been to recognise that a person is who they are and not what they do. Sadly society seems hell bent on making everything about economic productivity, and so many people find their identity being bound up with that.

As for a work ethic, what my dc see is a mother who spends a lot of time in bed or on the sofa. By some reasoning here they would be heading for a life of laziness and benefit scrounging. But dd at 14 volunteers at a local animal centre every Saturday and has mapped out her plans for her future career, as has ds. We have instilled a work ethic in them by how we act and what we teach them, not what our circumstance happens to be.

I'm sad that anyone should judge another. We're all finding our way through our own situations. We should be supporting one another in that, not shouting one another down in order to feel justified in what we are doing.

I still get asked a lot about what I 'do' as if it is the thing that makes me me. Sometimes I say that I keep breathing because that's about true for that day. Why should I be defined by something so outside myself? Let's be confident in the people we are, showing our dc a good way through our love and our actions rather than by whether we wohm or sahm or other.

As for financial situations - yes, I am reliant on dh. But I'm forced to be, so that's the way it is. If something happened to him things would be hard. But we can't always live life on what ifs. We can only live with what we have and do our best within that.

Stop fighting, stop validating, be who you are and be proud of it.

I struggle to understand how so many people have the time and energy to give a shit about how other people run their lives.

Every family is unique, and everyone makes choices based on their own personal set-up, so what's the point trying to assert that your own choices are the best? There is no best. There's only best for your family, and possibly best for now.

We've had all sorts of arrangements for working/childcare. DP works full time and is away part of the week for work. Since DS1 was born, I have worked full time, 3 days a week, 2 days a week, part-time/freelance, entirely freelance, stayed at home, studied part-time, changed career path, and currently do a mix of one day a week in main job, studying, freelance in second job and stay home one day. This will probably change within a few months.

As a couple, DP and I sit down fairly regularly and review how things are working, and whether goals need to change, or finances need to be tweaked. Our family life evolves all the time. If people judge, I'm not sure how they know what bit of it all to judge!

Do whatever works for you and stop looking for validation from others - you'll never please everyone!

madhairday there is absolutely NO shame in being financially reliant on your DH. I always have been to a certain degree as my DH earns 5/6 times more than I do so of course, he contributes more. And he wouldn't have it any other way. He is as keen for me to be a SAHM for the first couple of years as I am. If that means him paying all the bills & transferring money into my account for me, then so be it. I'll manage, somehow....

in terms of value, the reason I would feel guilty for being a SAHM is that by 'working' as a SAHM I would be performing a job that when done for money plus generally be a minimum wage or thereabouts type job, as opposed to working out of the home where I earn much more, hence I feel more valuable there assuming my children are well looks after, stimulated an are thriving at nursery.

The "value" of a SAHM is not minimum wage, it is the cost of childcare.
The perceived value of a nursery worker is that they are working and thus, we are told, showing a good work ethic.

Stinkersmum - that is not what I said at all. I will be taking the full year I am entitled to off and then returning for my OWN feeling of self worth and fulfilment and I also said that I was saying this was MY set of circumstances and opinions no one else's and no judgement. Please read posts properly before jumping on me

Also for me it's an nhs job I have and I don't want to take too much time off or my skills and knowledge will become redundant and I want to finish my nursing degree soon.

Provided the man who fathered the children is providing for them and not the taxpayer then being a SAHM is a perfectly reasonable choice.

I think the problem with the sah/woh thread/post debate is that we only remember what affects us most. So as a sahp I will remember the cuntlodger, lazy, downrodden, your dh will leave you for his secretary peniless, poor role model etc. Whereas a woh will remember the equally awful why bother to have dc if you farm them off type post. Both types exist on here probably in equal measure and one is normally in response to the other.
If a sah reacts to sah bashing they are told they must be insecure in their choice. Yet if they say they love it like op they are putting woh down. I am guesding it probably works both ways.
Both options are equally good for dc. You judt do what is right for you and your family although often I agree some have to work but equally some have to sah for economic reasons. A view many on mn do not understand.

Wow wheels do you really put such a low value on childcare professionals. They do a great job of looking after your dc but they are only worth minimun wage.

morethanpotatoprints - benefits are a safety net not a lifestyle choice.

"It hurts. I think this is why people argue so furiously on these threads. It genuinely hurts and for most of us there is no choice.and the suggestion that your children's childhood is somehow diminished due to your working makes you feel sad and bitter."

Yes. As the main breadwinner ever since DH and I got together, there was never an option for me to give up work. I used to rack my brains trying to think of a way to manage it - even just part-time. It wasn't that I didn't enjoy my career - I did - but I also wanted to be there with my children when they were small. But it wasn't possible. I was very lucky in that I was able to drop down to 30 hours a week when DS2 was small, and have been able to work one or two days from home....but that sort of flexibility is/was rare. I have been the best mother I could but whenever there is a problem with my children I wonder whether it was because I was always out of the house. And I'd do anything to be able to go back and experience a few of those days with my babies when they were still babies.

The problem is , your flamed if you do work and looked down upon if you don't. It was like it 20 odd years ago when I had DS1 and it seems to be exactly the same now. Its best for people to do what works for them and their families. Ive posted this before, but I was told I wasn't 'committed' to my child because I went back to work. A friend who wasn't a friend much after this remark..

Its not always easy and losing one wage is even harder now than it was for me when ds 1 was 4 and I had to give up my career as there wasn't anyone to have him ( after school clubs, breakfast clubs and so on were not around in the area I lived at the time), I have also found that women who had family close by and willing to lend a hand for free were also in a better position to work. I had none of this. I read these threads now and feel so sorry for the younger generation - there seems to be a lot of pressure to be everything, a perfect mum, a high flying career etc etc. It all seems a huge minefield, even if childcare provision has moved on a lot over the years.( Its just as expensive though. )

Not to mention I credit the stress of working full-time with 3 kids and STILL struggling financially so we could afford no help with the general shitwork at home, as being one of the triggers for my now chronic depression. To feel like a hamster trapped on a wheel, never reaching your goals, never feeling like you are doing a good enough job in any role, never having a moment to yourself or quality time to spend with your spouse is utterly destructive, demoralising and exhausting.

I try very hard to feel proud of myself for coping with it all, for raising 3 reasonably nice children, for not having thrown myself off a cliff! But I don't.

IrianofWay - you should feel proud of yourself - you did the best thing for your family.

Misslgl88 - this is a copy of pat of your post - Im just about to go on Mat leave but I intend on returning to work probably doing 2 night shifts other wise my childcare bills would be colossal! Also I feel for me it's a principle and for me will hopefully teach my children about the rewards of working.

Sorry, I read that as one of the reasons you are returning to work is so that you can hopefully teach your children about the rewards of working. As if to suggest if you didn't return to work, you wouldn't be able to teach them that. I do apologise profusely if I read this wrong. But I don't think I did.

I'm sad that anyone should judge another.

Very much, yes.

kunfupnada the thing is you are very lucky to be able to have that flexibility in your job. For most people, there is no flexibility. It's either you work or you don't (or you work part time for a very crap wage).

I have done something like this. But I consider myself extremely lucky to have been able to retrain, to have had the time to build up my business (very few people can 'just go freelance' and get work and make money straight away). So yes in some ways I have the best of both worlds. I'm working 3 days, there to pick up the dcs 2 days. And the dcs go to their grand parents for the hols.

however, I'm very aware that if I was doing my old job, I would be working stupid hours, travelling and working 5 days a week. There would have been NO choice. And I think that's where most people are. DH doesn't have the choice to go part time for example.

That's why having a debate on whether it's good or not to be a SAHM doesn't really have any meaning for most people. The choice just isn't there.

Maybe if we actually had an adequate provision for childcare (and not so expensive which means supported by companies and/or government) then there would be more choice. and more equality between men and women in the workplace. And, and and. Then there would be a choice.
But for most of us, having the choice is already a luxury.

Tbh I'm a SAHM and as I said previously, it is best for my family. It does piss me off when I get catty comments about my situation, not because I am insecure, but because I wouldn't dream of making comments about how other people live their lives. I have been absolutely gobsmacked at some of the things my working friends do. Only last week a friend of mine sent her DD to school with a temperature of 39 because she didn't want her work to get 'arsey' with her. She dosed her up with Calpol and Nurofen. Luckily her DD made it through the school day but was ill all weekend. This person can stay at home but wants to have a separate income. I had to bite my tongue so hard.

But that’s the thing Lem, what about this child’s father? Nobody is getting annoyed about HIM going off to work and sending his DD to school are they? Why the fuck should SHE stay home and give up her job/financial independence if the childs father doesn't want to either??

No, all the vitriol is piled onto the mother. Again. Who is probably stressed and trying her best to keep her job in a world of employment which is extremely unhelpful about being flexible with people with caring responsibilities.

It’s great for SAHMs, the kids can stay off school with ease. Its less easy for families where both parents work.