if you think its ok to have a glass of wine a week in pregnancy is it ok to have a cigarette a week?

[Beatrixemerald]

Just asking opinions, not sure what mine is really as was teetotal for years pre pregnancy so didn't need to think about it, but I was a smoker until I found out I was pregnant.
I just wonder if we are as a society far more tolerant of drinking vs smoking and this translates through to pregnancy as nhs advice seems to be to avoid both.

Oh yes how me me me and selfish of me to take take into account my mental health.

Did you miss that i had four other children who needed a functioning mother, not one that was hallucinating, not sleeping and a shell of a person. I can only conclude you have never had mental health issues suggest . Nor had i btw before having ds4, i had sailed through my previous pregnancies, ne er had pnd or any mental health coconcerns at all until after ds4 when i went totally loopy. Spent weeks begging for help to be told as an experienced mother i knew what i was doing... well yes i did but lack of sleep and crazy hormones do funny things to you. Had i not gone voluntarily to the psych unit they would have sectioned me. The crisis team that is after dp dragged me back to the dr who had poo pooed me and insisted they helped. I also had an emergency mri scan as my hormone levels were so out of kilter they thought i may have a tumour on my pituitary gland.

I am fine now, off medication and well. But actually i am probably slightly more selfish than i used to be. I prioritise time for me. To run, to do things i enjoy. To make sure i look after my mental hwalth because the most important thing my children need is a well mother. Believe me when i say having had mental health issues once i will do my damdest to make sure i stay well.

It can happen to anyone, i had none of the risk factors, and they never found out why my hormones went crazy. I was unlucky, it could be you next time.

I didnt smoke in my other pregnancies. Despite being at uni when preg with ds1, i stopped immediately and didnt drink etc. But life throws curve balls, never say never until you have lived it and even then you can only speak for yourself.

Oh and thankyou for all the fowers giys, but i am fine now. Truly i am but i hate his shameful judgemental bullshit levelled towards pregnant women.

5madthings, fwiw I don't actually think that selfish is necessarily a bad thing anyway. Its levelled as an insult, but in reality it is massively important to put yourself first sometimes. If you are constantly putting everyone else's needs before your own you will (most likely) end up having a breakdown. (Or at least that's what my counsellor told me.)

Maybe I am being judgemental but then thats what this thread is about surely. You all come on AIBU and everyone gives their opinion. You dont like someone's opinion so you tell them to f*k off or call them a c*t or whatever. ridiculous.

End of the day do what you want. Its your conscience you need to persuade that you're doing the right thing. It's up to you to find the facts you need to make the right decision.

In my opinion I do not feel it is a good idea to smoke any amount during pregnancy. I also think it is not a good idea to drink alot. I am not sure about small amounts of alcohol but I wouldnt risk it.

If you decide to smoke or drink during pregnancy, then go ahead. is up to you. Just dont expect everyone to agree with you on here or elsewhere. but dont slate them for having an opinion.

You know what they say about opinions; they're like aresholes, everyone has got one and some of them are full of shit.

Suggest, there's no problem with having an opinion. There is a problem when you start referring to your opinion as fact though, unless you have strong evidence to back it up.

Suggest I think the problem with some of your posts is that they seemed to really vilify another poster - who had already flagged that she had suffered from mental health problems. There are people at the end of the keyboards who might be affected by what you type - especially something as strident as the "me me me" comment.

Your opinion on drinking and smoking is clear. The facts on drinking and smoking in pregnancy are not at all clear - as if there was clear cut research (I feel I should qualify here for fear of starting another debate: I mean on small to moderate amounts of alcohol and nicotine/cigarettes) we would hardly be having this debate.

Jessica surely it must be obvious smoking is bad for the baby? it's bad for the mother so must surely be bad for the baby. I don't need a scientific paper to tell me that. I would say it's common sense

I apologise to the other poster who I upset. Maybe that was unfair. I am sorry. I guess I have a black and white view regarding smoking during pregnancy.

Of course smoking is bad, i dont need any papers to tell me that. But somwtiems ots about balancing risks. Yes there are risks to smoking in pregnancy but sometimes those risks need to balanced agaisnt other risks. In my case that was my mental health. When you have reached rock bottom once you never want to do so again. The crisis team were called in becuase i tried to smother my baby and dp marched me to the drs. I didnt harm him, he was still crying. All i wanted in that dark moment was for him to just stop for a minute. I dont know how it happened or why but i snapped out of it, was horrified at myself and called dp and made him come home from work. I dread to think what would have happened had i not snapped out of it... it doesnt bare thinking about. That baby turns 7 this month. I am well now. But i cant remember the first year of his life. Even once i had recovered i was still on a knife edge for a long time. Mental health is complicated, and post natal mental health even more so. There is also a huge lack of resources and support for mothers who are struggling. Yet you come along in your smug little world sayjng i was selfish and me me me. I wasnt actually i was prioritising my existing children, making sure i stayed well to be there for them. No it wasnt ideal for the baby i was carrying but had i not prioritised my mental health i may not be here and nor would she be and four other chidlren would be motherless. So i balanced the risks of smoking against that. And yes i had the full support of a wide medical team to do so. I was smoking infrequently and they were actually not concerned by it at all. I trusted their judgement and my own researc and gut instinct of what i needed to do to stay well.

Regardless of why someone smokes or drinks or does whatever you deeem not acceptable during pregnancy, these women of which i was one, do not need judgement they need support which is woefully lacking in the current system.

You havent upset me! You pissed me off. I posted what happened to me because actually i think this shit needs to talked about. I want others suffering to know that they can and will get better and sometimes you need to do what you do to get through and its nothing to be ashamed about. And then some judgemental arsehole tells me i was selfish. No i wasnt, i did my best which is all any of us can hope to do. And i want anyone reading and maybe not having the perfect pregnancy to know that its ok and they will be ok.

Yes its aibu but its not a license to be a dick, ultimately mnet is by parents, for parents to support parents. Maybe think about how supportive you have been?i may not be perfect but i wont judge and i will support, even when that opens me up to criticism from others because i support women.

Many many people successfully quit smoking - men and women, pregnant and not.
Guilting them has never ever actually worked.
Support and understanding why they smoke, exploring with them what might help to stop and what their 'pitfalls' are, might.

IMO there is literally nobody in this country who still does not know that smoking is not good for anybody's health.

To use smoking to vilify women and as just another stick to beat them with is just not helpful.

pissed off, upset. same thing I think. okay, am sorry I pissed you off. I still dont think smoking during pregnancy is good for anyone but maybe in your case, weighing things up, perhaps it was better than the alternative you describe. am glad you have managed to sort yourself out now.

Mumsnet is about support for parents but its also about debate. this thread is debating drinking and smoking during pregnancy and so people will have views either side of the argument. It doesnt mean those you disagree with should get called dick or arsehole or smug or whatever. Thats just abusive.

Debate yes, but you called me selfish, thats not debate its insulting and name calling and judging.

I laid myself bare on this thread, knowing it may lead to that. However most people have some tact and empathy.

But i stand by it because its important that we talk about these things.

And i didnt sort myself out, fgs that makes it sound like someone with mental health issues just needs to pull themselves together. I got well, with the support of family and friends and the mental health team. Ot was a long hard journey which i dont want to repeat, which is painful to think about but i share it on here because i want others to learn from my experience and so that just incase anyone reading is going through it themselves they can ssee that it will be ok and it may give someone a little bit of hope when they are in a dark place. What they then dont need is to see judgemental crap.

okay, sorry for calling you selfish. you were not selfish. However, I think in a lot of cases smoking during pregnancy is done for selfish reasons and not for the reason you describe.

and am also sorry for saying glad you sorted yourself out. bad choice of words. what I meant was am glad youve got yourself out of that darker period in your life. am happy you are in a better place now and hope you continue to be so.

However, I think in a lot of cases smoking during pregnancy is done for selfish reasons and not for the reason you describe.

Well you think wrong then. Women who smoke in pregnancy do so because they can't stop. They already know the 'facts' and they already feel shit. 5madthings is spot on when she says they need support and not judgment and is very brave to share her story here.

Anybody who is trying to quit (pg or not) will be made very welcome over on the stop smoking section. There's no judgment there, just lots of support, advice and encouragement

I think I'm wasting my time here. Carry on smoking and drinking then. Carry on risking your unborn babies lives. It's your conscience. My advice would be though, anyone thinking of having a baby in the future, try and give up the smoking now. Or don't even start smoking in the first place. The risks of smoking have been known for years so why bother starting.

Come off the cross Suggest. I assume you haven't had close experience of severe MH issues or you would probably be a bit less of a sanctimonious twat more tempered in your views. Obviously smoking while pregnant isn't ideal but living with mental health issues is less than ideal as well.

I think I'm wasting my time here.

Yes, I agree. I generally find it a waste of time banging on about subjects of which I have little knowledge and even less understanding.

Me: Anybody who is trying to quit (pg or not) will be made very welcome over on the stop smoking section ...

You: Carry on smoking and drinking then. Carry on risking your unborn babies lives. It's your conscience.

The risks of smoking have been known for years so why bother starting.
Usually because you are a child. Children are not great at foresight and seem to have an inbuilt drive for experimentation as they reach their teens - most find it hard to imagine they'll ever be as ancient as 30, let alone imagining themselves in their 50's or 60's with COPD.

Your advice really is spectacularly useless.

I think we all know smoking is harmful, most people who smoke want to stop. But its nit that easy. Are you forgetting the addiction part if it fgs. The reasons people smoke are complex and varied, no one is saying yes go ahead carry on smoking and drinking whilst pregnant. We are saying its not as simple as you make out and people need to make a risk assesment and balance their health needs with those of their babies. Of course ideally they would stop, but some people cant and they need support not judgement.

Yes if only i had a time machine and could ho back to when i was 13 years old and tell myself not to start smoking...

think we had moved on from the mental health issues Gennz. You can assume all you want.

Plentyofpubegardens How much knowledge do you need to know that smoking isnt doing anybody any good. it really isnt rocket science.

What you should be saying is smoking is not good for you or your baby so come onto the stop smoking page

Someone may be 13 when they start but at some point they need to grow up. am not saying it is easy but wouldnt you do anything to protect your child?

It's interesting the correlation between mental illhealth and smoking. Interestingly I read something somewhere that said "not all smokers are alcoholics, but almost all alcoholics smoke". It stayed with me. I can see a clear link between smoking/alcoholism/drug use and mental ill health.

Out of four pregnancies, the first two were before I started smoking. I quit with the third but number 4 was different. My mental state was not as strong and I did smoke, though I cut down to a couple of roll-ups a day. And yes, I felt guilty about them. My youngest wasn't my smallest baby, she and number one weighed about the same. The baby with lung problems and such was number two (also the smallest) despite being concieved and gestated in a non-smoking house (unlike the others, since I lived with my parents during the first pregnancy, and with dh for the 3rd and 4th). She is no less intelligent and no less healthy than her siblings.

I'm not trying to prove that smoking in pregnancy is ok, I don't believe it is. But thankfully my youngest seems to have escaped unscathed, despite my failings.

What you should be saying is smoking is not good for you or your baby

But everybody already knows this! What good does it do to point it out yet again? It actually does no good at all, it causes harm by making women afraid to ask for help because they fear being judged. The most successful documented method of quitting is NHS Stop Smoking Services (they achieve a massive 7% success rate at 1 year ) yet they have a real problem getting smokers to engage even though the majority want to quit. Those NICE guidelines I linked to a few pages back include advice on how to manage women's fear of being stigmatised.

Someone may be 13 when they start but at some point they need to grow up.
I was 12. I started trying to quit at about 18 and carried on trying to quit for almost three decades. I finally managed it just over a year ago thanks to vaping. You know nothing.

That's great that there are these services and if the majority want to quit, they need to take responsibility and just do it and use these services and not look for excuses for not giving up.

Fear of being judged, fear of being stigmatised. do we pamper people and treat them like a child or do we tell them to grow up and take responsibility for themselves?