to not make my 4yo call her dad?

[MissMuesli]

Background: we have been split up since she was 18 months, she is now 4 (only just). He likes to phone her every.single.night. I have dropped this down to Skype once a week and one phone call. She stays at his house from Friday to Sunday so this actually works out as contact every other day.

He claims that I am being unfair and that I'm not allowing him a relationship with her and that I'm spiteful. From my perspective dd doesn't actually enjoy the calls very much. They are always long, anything under 25 minuses isn't enough so I end up having to facilitate the whole thing otherwise she gets bored and just walks away. It's getting to the point she isn't enjoying the calls because they are too frequent and too long. She often tells me she doesn't want to talk to dad. He attempts to call every day even though I often tell him she doesn't want to talk, if I don't answer I get abuse or the accusations above...

So AIBU to not make dd call every night and stick to the every other night arrangement with 1 skype and 1 call?

I agree, he sounds very controlling, controlling you and dd. He should phone her up if he wants to speak to her, not you. I would see a solicitor or take it to court to have contact formalised. It is not fair he gets every weekend, you get the school days. Take control back. If she does not want to speak to him for very long, hang up without any explanation. It is insanity expecting a 25 min conversation every night from a 4 year old. It's a firm of control, he's abusive if you try and talk to him.

DH works away in the week and is only around at w/es. He calls the children every night and, if I am honest, it can get a little stressful, if we are late or tired but we try to set a realistic time and realistic expectations. My virtually 4 year-old can usually manage about 5 minutes before she loses interest and coherence. Facilitating it is hard enough when I am still married to the man in question!

Controlling. This about his perceived 'rights' and fear of losing his control over DD, not about what is good for your child. It takes the mcvities

I'm pretty impressed your 4 year old can manage 25 minutes on the phone!

He's not doing it for her though is he? My DH works away loads and has scaled his calls to the DC right back - honestly, they're not bothered. It's as if in their heads if he's away, he's away. It helps him miss them less but it doesn't help them.

And not to mention it must be massively disruptive to YOUR evenings with your daughter.

OP my XP was like this with DS - fortunately not the length of the phone calls, which is frankly ridiculous and impossible to enforce for a child of ANY age - but the insistence on contact by his terms.

At first it was ok but eventually DS ended up dreading the weekends and XP was witnessed regularly dragging him kicking and screaming into his car when he picked DS up from school on a Friday.

As DS grew older he refused to come to the phone as it had become such a chore and XP was always angry at me because of these things.

This went on from ages 3 - 13 and I always went along with it as I thought the relationship between the two of them was the most important thing.
Even though, ultimately, we were both being bullied by XP.

However at age 14, as DS became a sulky and unbiddable teenager, XP lost interest in him and for the past three years has only seen him for about 5 days a year. Once he couldn't control DS any more he didn't want to know.

XP also owes loads of child support, like yours.
I think we were both hoodwinked into believing that this controlling insistence on contact was the hallmark of a great father.

It isn't, it's manipulation pure and simple, with no thought for your DD.

Ugh. What a wanker. Totally abusive him refusing to bring your DD back. I think you need to get a court order in place ASAP. You'll feel better as you won't be going through it alone then.

And of course nightly 25 minute phone calls are ridiculous; what a twat he is.

He's an idiot. Legal advice is the way to go.

I work away from home quite often and even when I'm away for 10 days it's a struggle to get my kids to speak to me, if I'm lucky I might get 5 mins of their attention every other day - and they are 12 and 13!

When she goes to school she is going to have a lot of parties etc. at weekends, and is not going to necessarily want to be at Dad's every weekend.

I think the norm for court ordered contact is every other weekend and one mid week night.

My DH is often away, and would think himself lucky to speak to any of my 3 DC (18, 16 and 11) for 25 minutes, in fact I can only imagine one of them speaking that long on a good day. They don't speak to him that much in one go when he's at home (or me often - unless we're having one of our family spontaneous debates).

The thin he doesn't seem to realise and you seem to have lost sight of is: contact isn't a parents right but for the benefit of the child.

OP I have an abusive ex. It was a nightmare for a while but the quicker you establish boundaries the easier it will be. These type of guys are like a dog with a bone. They don't let go. Remember though; he talks shit and is abusive. Don't listen to his 'poor me' arguments.

Yes when he calls give her the phone and then let her decide when to wander off or say goodbye. 5 minutes is plenty. When dh and I can't be home overnight we phone home but ds aged 3 is frequently to busy to chat. That is just the way it it. You need a solicitor. He is bullying you.

I would definitely formalise contact, either through court or solicitor. You and dd are like puppets on a string. No he is not a good father, a good father just would not do that. Before then, put your foot down I would start weekends at every other week, and leave him to call, then give phone to dd, and let her talk to him and end it herself. You do not have to be an intermediary to this abusive twat.

As he is unable to talk to you with respect, I would e mail him and state that when he calls, you will pass tge phone straight to dd, it is up to her to decide when to end the call. Weekend contact is to be every other weekend, starting from next weekend, as you would like weekend time with dd as well.

This is a very different picture from your OP. I would suggest that you formalise all the arrangements, let DD have every other weekend with him (particularly as she comes up to school age), let her phone him when she wants (or him phone her) but don't facilitate it. Let him learn what her limits are and deal with them without you getting involved.

By tolerating his behaviour (and facilitating some of it - i.e. phone calls) he is learning that this is a way to get what he wants. Stop playing his game, do something different and he will need to do something different in return because his usual tricks won't work any more.

You have done brilliantly in getting out of this relationship, this next bit is just as important and will set the tone for what impact he will have on your life into the future.

Hope you get somewhere soon

So he has her every weekend because he can't have her during the week because he needs to work and yet he hasn't paid maintenance for 6 months? Nice thing he's got going there! Sylvanians has given good advice on how to proceed. I wonder if the arrangements for the phone calls could be formalised too or would that be left for the parents to sort out? The 25 minutes thing sounds all about him controlling you and your daughter rather than him doing it for your dds benefit.

Even from the op, the op ex sounded very controlling and nasty.

tbh I think you need to revisit the whole arrangement with school starting - I would have a big sit down chat if he is generally amicable - as long as you are asking for reasonable contact he can kick and scream but no court would give him every weekend.

The op was not drip feeding at all, in the op I could see he was extremely controlling, and it was not for dd benefit but himself.

I don't like the sound of him calling her name again and again when she has clearly had enough of talking either. If you are letting it happen rather than finishing the call for her when she wants to, because otherwise he is abusive, that's why I'm wondering if you could get the phone calls formalised to give you backup

I feel really sorry for you, he has all of her weekend already, so you get all of the routine and non of the fun and then he is adding this massive task into your nightly routine. It doesn't sound fair, you need down time with her too :(

Definitely solicitor, and start setting clear boundaries, do not let him control you and dd. When he calls, give dd the phone, and let her put it down when she's had enough. You do not have to stay on there, facilitating it all, when he is being abusive and vile. Start stamping down on this, your dd needs you to be strong for her as she cannot.

Show her how to end the call when she's had enough, bye bye daddy and press the put down button is enough.

Yes ..I am not sure if you are working but if a LP at 5 you would no longer be eligible for income support so would be working week days. I would point out it is in her best interests to make the changes now as not so many changes when she starts school.

Are you doing Maintenance through CSA ? if not do so.

I think you are letting him get far too much under your skin. I would firstly see a sols. But yes tell him it is EOW and the DC must be back by 6pm otherwise you she will be too tired.

My 7 year old wouldn't manage 25 minutes once a week. I would remove Skype..controlling partners are looking in your house and Tell him phonecalls are EOD and as long as she wants to talk not the other way round.

Tell him if he is verybally abusive to you you will only speak to him through Email. But I would remove any day to day conversation with him as it seems to be helping nothing.

Do not fall into the trap of thinking you are lucky that he wants to see and speak to her so much , therefore he must be a good father. It's still all about his emotional needs and not about what's best for her.

I agree with pp that once she's at school every weekend will not be viable as you will feel like you never see her. And stop cajoling her in the phone calls. Show her how to hang up when she's had enough and leave her to it.

Good luck op.

Between my dd being 3 years old (when separation happened) and 5 and a half, I tolerated nightly phone calls from exP 'to dd' on the nights she was here. (ExP had her 50 % of nights but it wasn't 50/50 true care - another story). Dd just about never wanted to talk, so I would end up having a 10 minute conversation with ex. If I didn't answer I would be bullied.

It took me a while to realize I was being controlled and bullied. Ex p would threaten police if I didn't ring back. It got very intrusive after a while. Occasionally we'd be out for an early dinner or still at a friend's house and exp would want to know where we were etc.

Eventually because of widespread bullying I went no contact and let exP get a court order. ExP asked for and got the standard eow etc arrangement. And court ordered phone calls twice a week. For the first few weeks I told dd ex P was calling, did she want to answer (dd 7 years old by now), she always said no so i let it go to answering machine. After a few weeks I stopped asking her as it felt like I was harassing her.

I have told her that she is allowed to ring exP whenever she wants, but she doesn't. I don't ring her when she's at exP's because tbh I find it too difficult, it makes me have to confront how much I am missing her.