to not make my 4yo call her dad?

[MissMuesli]

Background: we have been split up since she was 18 months, she is now 4 (only just). He likes to phone her every.single.night. I have dropped this down to Skype once a week and one phone call. She stays at his house from Friday to Sunday so this actually works out as contact every other day.

He claims that I am being unfair and that I'm not allowing him a relationship with her and that I'm spiteful. From my perspective dd doesn't actually enjoy the calls very much. They are always long, anything under 25 minuses isn't enough so I end up having to facilitate the whole thing otherwise she gets bored and just walks away. It's getting to the point she isn't enjoying the calls because they are too frequent and too long. She often tells me she doesn't want to talk to dad. He attempts to call every day even though I often tell him she doesn't want to talk, if I don't answer I get abuse or the accusations above...

So AIBU to not make dd call every night and stick to the every other night arrangement with 1 skype and 1 call?

25 mins for a 4 year old is just ridiculous. When I go away with work I am lucky if I get 10 mins out of my 8 year old and the 4 year old wanders in and out of Skype chat. He is being unrealistic and unfair on her.

I think you need to have a conversation with him separately about this, not around the time of the call.

Tell him you know he wants to talk to her but surely he understands that at 4 she is easily tired and does not have the attention span and the pressure he is putting on her is making her reluctant. Ask him if when he was 4 he could manage a 25-min phone call every night. Ask him to think about a way to handle this that meets her needs first of all, because they should come before his. And tell him abusiveness towards you for trying to meet her needs is not on. You are not trying to thwart him, you're trying to help a 4yo not to get upset and stressed. If he cares about how she feels, he could work with you to find a solution she can handle.

Poor DD, I'm really sorry for her. Yes it's good to want to maintain contact, but it sounds like he has no respect for what she wants.

What about you leave them to it, ie you set up the call or Skype and then you leave the room.
It might be that your dd will leave and start playing but if she is doing that in front of the camera, it might be a way for them to still communicate and to share something.
And he will learn that it's too much for her wo you intervening (and then it's your fault).

He is controlling you. Demanding a 25 minute phone call with a 4 year old and if he doesnt get it he gets abusive?! Im sorry but how the fuck is that lovely and caring?

He has a LONG time with her at the weekends. Sadly, when parents divorce you see you children less. If he phones, give her the phone. When shes had enough tell her to hang up. If it is eating into your time with her, say no. Why is it reasonable for him to phone FOR 25 MINUTES EVERY NIGHT during your time. But first, id phone her on the nights he has her. If he doesnt accomodate your phone call, his end at that moment.

He's making it a chore for her, and she'll start to hate it, and him.

And yes, it's not only your DD he's controlling, but you too.

Tbh i think the access arrangements are not good for you as they are WITHOUT daily phonecalls. When she starts school in september you will see her for breakfast, then afterschool doing homework and dinner then bed. He will have pressure free weekends. He will get FAR MORE quality time with her than you.

I do feel controlled as I have to siti n on the conversation to keep it going otherwise she just doesn't want to talk. I think I'm going to go with the suggestion that a few have mentioned and set up skype/phone call and let them get on with with. When she's bored she's bored and can let him know herself.

Calleigh- I know :-( sorry this is a dripfeed again but I try and keep things separate and not let one issue cloud another.

But aswell as the phonecalls he insists that he has her every weekend, again met by verbal abuse if I don't agree. I asked to have her one Saturday a month which didn't happen.

As well at this he is meant to drop her off (pays very little maintaince, and in arrears due to non-payment for about 6 months). He either refuses to drop her off until 7.30 pm which is so late when she gets up for school tomorrow, or he will refuse to bring her back at all. He will text me at 6 and say either come and pick her up or she will have to go to work with my dad (so 6 hours of being driven around in a van).

The phone call is only one issue of many to be honest but I wanted opinions without the input of the other issues.

If he wants to call her, then let him actually call. Let him try and hold a phone conversation with a disinterested four year old, there's no reason why he needs to be able to see into your home and project his face and voice around it every night.

I think he does have a right to be able to call his dd whenever he wants, and she has the right to know when her Dad wants to talk to her. I was brought up between separated parents and my Dad phoned most days. It was nice to know he was interested, but it was also nice that because the phonecalls were frequent they didn't have to be long.

I completely agree that this is about his control, of both you and your DD. My XH doesn't see DD (almost 5) very often and they speak or skype once or twice a week. Last week she didn't want to speak to him at all. Her logic was that she'd spent three days with him over half term and had done quite enough talking then. I explained this to him and he understood. He had been a little upset (understandably) but for all his numerous faults he does actually uderstand if she doesn't feel like talking.

I have to say your ex is doing well to keep her talking for 25 minutes every day. I wouldn't be able to.

Oh and YANBU. This should be about her needs, not his.

Devonfolk- I end up doing the talking, or "tell daddy this" "tell daddy that" "tell daddy what was for snack". Very dull.

Why on earth does he have her every weekend?! The norm would be every OTHER weekend - so that both parents get proper downtime with the child, a proper chance to do things during a day off school.

OP, break that pattern- seriously, poor dad? He has her for EVERY SINGLE non-school day. If you don't change that, when she starts reception your time will be limited to getting her ready for school, seeing her for evening food/bath/bedtime, and that will be IT. No days out. No downtime without school the next day. And presumably 25 minute calls interrupting that small time along with her you do have.

This is bigger than the phonecalls - I would change the schedule right now - to the norm, which is every other weekend and an overnight in the week. It's what a court would order... and if he didn't like that and argued for 50/50 - that would be structured so that you still both got equal downtime with her.

When she starts school properly, this is going to be a mega stressful way of life for her. Her everyday home, bedroom, mum time is going to contain no relaxation time at all. That's not in a young child's best interests (imagine the stress of going away for the weekend, every weekend?) - and that's why courts don't like it. Not least because it also is a schedule ripe for ending up with the child growing to resent having to go away every weekend - unless dad is super local, it soon affects friendships, parties, playdates too.

And, and - so he works Mon-Fri: well, tough! Is his schedule more important than yours? - no. It's deeply wrong and unbalanced that there is just an acceptance that his work schedule takes such priority that it means that he gets ALL the fun time and you get NONE. It shouldn't. If he works Mon-Fri on hours that don't allow for a midweek visit, that's his problem. It doesn't mean that you have to give up all your weekend time with her to make up for HIS work schedule.

This is a problem brewing - the phone call behaviour indicates someone overbearing and uncompromising about contact, and the schedule you have bears that out. Good for him - not good for you, not good for her - and will get worse. Change it now.

What on earth would a 4 year old say for 25 minutes? sounds like a total controlling twunt. Stick to your guns and put the phone down when your child has finished.

Huuuuuuuge drip feed. He sounds like an arse.

What happens when she starts full time school?

Sorry mommybird, wasn't intentional. Trying to keep issues separate but they do overlap. Not sure about september, I do need to sort things out but struggle where to start. I ended relationship because of emotional abuse, we've already been to mediation which hasn't helped.

I agree that you need some sort of formal mediated arrangement before your DD starts school.

My DD is in Year1 and she wants to do after school stuff now, so isn't home until about 4:30pm, then we chill out until DH is home about 5:45 (although I'm doing dinner etc), then it's dinner, bath and bed by 7:30pm. There's not much time at all during the week.

My parents divorced and we saw my dad just on Saturdays once a fortnight. I have a good relationship with my dad and although he might have wanted to see us more, we couldn't do overnights. However we always did fun stuff on those Saturdays. It was quality time over quantity.

You cant give controlling wankers an inch. He is taking several miles here.

See a solicitor is you want some legal back up but he is being totally unreasonable.

You need to be really strong now to deal with him controlling you if you stand any chance of it stopping.

As was said above, change the arrangements. Tell him due to preparing her for the changes in reception you're starting now with new contact arrangements. He has her this weekend as planned, then two weeks after. He is to let you know by tye end of the weekend which mid week every other week he wants. 25 min phone calls are not convienient for you anymore. And for gods sake get a formal maintanance arrangement in place. A controlling man will use the maintainance payment to get his own way. Take it out of his hands.

He sounds very controlling. Refusing to bring her home? Abusing you verbally if you don't facilitate long, dull conversations nightly? What a twat.

DS1 is 9 and speaks to his Dad a couple of times a week, the most his Dad ever gets from him is probably 5 minutes at best. As for every weekend, I flatly refused from day one that he had him every weekend because, frankly, weekends are our family time now I'm back at work.

It's far easier said than done but you need to set some very firm ground rules so that this doesn't become him dictating to you when you can see your child. I'm all for co-parenting, I consult my ex on almost every issue re DS1. But ultimately, if I don't want something to happen, no amount of gobshiting from him will change my mind.

He's controlling you via your DD. He's going to get all the 'fun' time and you're going to get a few snatched hours in the evenings, you can never go out for a film, day trip, weekend away with her to see friends/family. You've got to sort out a formal arrangement that's fair to both of you, not just what he wants. You can't do this with an informal verbal arrangement as he's not being reasonable.

Ok, so your update is really very unsurprising.

He's behind on maintenance anyway and uses it to control you? That makes it easier in a way, as that threat has already been spent, so to speak.

Stop contact, and send him a solicitor's letter telling him that from now on, it will be every other weekend with the option of an overnight in the week. That's the norm, and it's the norm for a very good reason - it's in the interests of the child to have weekends with both parents. It shouldn't cost much. You could ask for advice on listing in it his behaviour so far with threats around pickup etc. which also show that his current behaviour is not in her best interests.

If he doesn't agree, he can go to court. Simple.

And he won't... because as soon as he sees a solicitor, they'll tell him he has two options - accept the revision, as it's the norm and he won't get every weekend, or, go for 50/50, which he might well get, but he'd then have to put her before his work and work around having childcare, evenings in the week etc.

He'll go for your every other weekend. Perhaps with a lot of abuse thrown in, which you can then call him up on, legally if you have to, again with the threat of him not getting her at all if he's going to be abusive. And hopefully he will pipe down. And you can go to CSA for maintenance.

Do this NOW, because at the moment she is young enough for it to go over her head if she doesn't see daddy for a few weeks. It NEEDS to happen for her good - and his, though the twat doesn't realise it - all he's going to end up with is a resentful little girl who hates the way Daddy is forever whisking her away from fun, friends, home - always on his schedule never hers, always in his interests, never hers. He's doing it already - dominating, stamping over what's good for her because what matters to him is what's good for HIM. She'll grow to hate him - no point in telling him that though, he won't want to listen.

Do it for her sake. Take advice anyway - family lawyer should be able to set it out for you. Oh and don't be afraid of him - he really has no power here, which is why he bullies.

This contact isn't court ordered is it?! Stick to your guns on phonecalls. In fact I would say he can call her on Wednesday for however long she likes, to tell him her news, and then he'll find out the rest on Friday.

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate all the advice. In all honesty I feel like I've run out of fight, I find it exhausting. I do need to get it sorted though I realise that! I'm going to get a free half hour with a solicitor and work out the best way to proceed. It has got out of hand, also... I kind of didn't realise how quick september is approaching. Dd is preschool at the moment so we do get alot of quality time but as pointed out that will soon change!

Thanks for all of your thoughts, I'm taking them on board. I know I do need to get this sorted, it's been relentless for years now and to be honest I feel exhausted and oit of fight. I know it needs to be overcome though, I'm going to book a free half hour with a solicitor and see what they can advise.

I do worry about september, currently dd is at preschool so we get lots of quality time but obviously that won't continue when she is at school full time! Thanks again!