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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think the Uk Standards of beauty are suited to White people

388 replies

QueenofSouthLondon · 01/03/2015 10:34

I have noticed as a black women that hardly any celebrities that are considered beautiful are black. In fact I can't think of one black (excluding mixed) or Asian British celebrity that is considered as beautiful by the whole nation.

Why is it that in this country we only find European features as attractive. It frustrates me as a black women that my features are not considered attractive outside my race.

So aibu to think this.

OP posts:
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GinnelsandWhippets · 01/03/2015 14:55

OP yanbu. Alek We and Lupita Nyong'o are the only very dark skinned black women I can think of who are really well known for their beauty, which is patently ridiculous when you can walk down any high St in South London and see loads of gorgeous black women. they are not perceived as selling well so no one uses them in campaigns and the vicious circle continues. Daft.

BrightBlowsTheBroom · 01/03/2015 15:03

I am a white English women who actually grew up in quite a diverse area and was surrounded by peers of different ethnicity. It isn't accurately reflected upon screen or magazines.

Are you aware of the percentage of BME women in this country? I grew up in rural Scotland. No one in our village or at my school was BME . There are now 1 Chinese family and one Indian family, both in the restaurant trade.

I live in a provincial city. In 20 years one black family has lived in my street.

Due to a point being raised in a thread on the feminist forum where someone commented about white women not having woc friends I made a point one day of actively checking how many bme women I saw that day. The answer was none on the 10 minute walk to work, 1 Asian woman at work, none in the sandwich shop at lunchtime either as staff or customers and 1 Asian women working in Boots.

None of what I have said is in any way meant to say BME women (and men)do not suffer more prejudice than white women and men. Of course they do but fighting that is going to require a lot more adding a few more models to a magazine.

DontDrinkandFacebook · 01/03/2015 15:05

House No I don't think the same about positions of power and boardrooms, but that is not what this thread is about. It's about celebrity, BME representations in the media and perceptions of beauty. Let's just stick to that for now.

LiDLrichardsPistachioSack · 01/03/2015 15:22

What is it you want exactly? Will you not be happy until you open a UK published magazine aimed at the typical UK woman and see that more than 50% of the women featured in it are black

What would be so wrong about this?

I'm white European and don't automatically find typical euro features more attractive than African features. I am also aware of my privilege insofar as HouseWhereNobodyLives puts it, I don't feel pressure to widen my nose, remove folds in my eyes, or change the texture of my hair to be considered "professional".

Whiteness is considered the default in this society. It makes some white people very uncomfortable when that is questioned doesn't it?

TywysogesGymraeg · 01/03/2015 15:29

But whiteness IS the default in the UK. The vast majority of the population is white. Where I live I can go for days without seeing a black face, if not longer.

BrightBlowsTheBroom · 01/03/2015 15:45

Scotland has 4% BME population of which Glasgow has around 12%. Edinburgh and Aberdeen around 8%.

www.gov.scot/Topics/People/Equality/Equalities/DataGrid/Ethnicity/EthPopMig

Whilst this is not particularly on point with representation of BME women in the media the last survey carried out by my professional body of its membership in Scotland showed 3% BME, so slightly below the population percentage but not widely out of line.

HouseWhereNobodyLives · 01/03/2015 15:52

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BrightBlowsTheBroom · 01/03/2015 15:53

*What is it you want exactly? Will you not be happy until you open a UK published magazine aimed at the typical UK woman and see that more than 50% of the women featured in it are black

What would be so wrong about this?*

I agree. I don't think there would be anything wrong with it. I only see women's mags at the hairdresser but I can't really see what the problem would be if say Dove's campaign of women coming in all sorts of shapes, age and colours weren't extended to other items being marketed.

HouseWhereNobodyLives · 01/03/2015 15:57

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steff13 · 01/03/2015 15:57

www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/celebrity/celebrity-galleries/2013/07/sexiest-hottest-men-of-2013 Only one black man who looks white and has white features.

I saw a few black men (not many, admittedly), including Idris Elba. Do you really think he looks white and has white features?

thoth · 01/03/2015 16:11

House- thank you Blush Is she Tweedy by name, tweedy by nature? (prob not if being held up as a beauty)

greysanderson I didn't read your link, only what you'd typed (sorry, dashing off out) but how appalling that someone's natural appearance should be considered unprofessional, absolutely awful, and completely wrong attitude. As if people don't have enough to deal with already applying for jobs in the current climate? Sad

enderwoman · 01/03/2015 16:32

Zendaya Coleman wore her hair in dreadlocks on the red carpet last week and on E!'s Fashion Police Giuliana Rancic said something like that she could smell the weed. Zendaya said that she wore her like that to show girls with Afro hair that they should be proud to wear their hair in styles like that. As a Disney Channel star I think that's a great statement to make.

Sazzle41 · 01/03/2015 16:35

M&S & Next have used a mixed race model to front several campaigns and had them front cover on their catalogue. I think its better than it was here, but the US is probably more 'there' in terms of celebrating different ideals of beauty. The Kardashians are Moroccan, Jennifer Lopez is Hispanic, Nicole Sherzinger is mixed race. They all make the top 10 most beautiful women lists.

Also, i think it was around 10 years ago in the US they did a study to see who children rated as their top five role models. The top 5 were all black - it caused a lot of comment at the time, that it showed how far the US had come racially. So progress is there and will probably continue to ripple out.
BTW my BFF is black and 43, she regularly gets men of all races coming up to her telling her how stunning she is, she looks like an 18 year old super model, not that i am jealous or anything!

countessmarkyabitch · 01/03/2015 16:35

*What is it you want exactly? Will you not be happy until you open a UK published magazine aimed at the typical UK woman and see that more than 50% of the women featured in it are black

Buxtonstill · 01/03/2015 16:49

Why is it that in this country we only find European features as attractive. It frustrates me as a black women that my features are not considered*

Bollocks. Stop generalising about a whole nation and implying the country as a whole only see Caucasions as attractive. Many of my friends are black and married to white men. So there goes your theory down the drain.

You are basing your opinions on beauty magazines who also seem to 'forget' anyone over a size 6, anyone under 5'10 or with short hair.

There are plenty of black women in the media, having major roles, anchor to shows, newsreaders etc. plenty of black women MP's , business women.

You sound like you have some insecurities that you need to work on before you attack others.

DontDrinkandFacebook · 01/03/2015 16:51

LiD There would be nothing 'wrong' with it at all from a human perspective, but from a commercial perspective it's completely unrealistic to expect that in a country with only around 14% BME, any form of media, be it film, TV, or the plugging of the fashion or beauty industry that is aimed at the GENERAL POPULATION rather than a minority section (or sub-section) of it, will gear a hugely disproportionate percentage of their whole business model around appealing largely to tiny minority. And it would be tiny, because (generally speaking) black women of African or Caribbean heritage do not aspire to look the same as 'black' women of Indian subcontinent heritage, who are not the same as south east Asian women, who are not the same as Arab women…..and all would quite rightly have their own preferences and tastes based (at least to some extent) on their ethnicity and sometimes their cultural identity.

As a white woman how would you feel (honestly) if you grabbed a hair magazine off the newsstand that featured a lots of white women on the front, and when you got home you flicked through it for inspiration only to find that 50% of the hairstyle photos were geared towards black/afro hair, and there was a four page spread on different ways to wear your hijab? You'd be bewildered. Admit it. A bit of diversity is all very well, but you just wanted to get ideas for blonde highlights and textured bobs for fine hair….

If that if that magazine kept up that policy it would go bust in no time at all, because it wouldn't serve either white women or black women well by trying to be all things to all (wo)men. What all woman wants is a magazine that speaks to them and understands what they aspire to look like, given their unchangeable limitations, which includes their ehtnicity.

Fashion is a bit different to beauty; anyone can visualise themselves in a dress regardless of the race of the model wearing it, whereas hair and makeup is hardly ever one-size-fits-all, ethnically speaking. Any publishing company is always going to focus on their biggest core market first and foremost, because they know that's what makes commercial sense.

Whiteness is considered the default in this society.

That's because whiteness IS still the default in this society. Just as blackness is the default in many others. It will continue to be the default for a few years yet, but not forever. Outside of urban areas many people will (rightly or wrongly) still assume an unseen person (perhaps a new next door neighbour or work colleague) will be white until evidence shows them otherwise. It's a perfectly understandable assumption based on their experience to date of their surroundings. At the risk of stating the obvious, that's because it's the UK, where 86% of people are white, and most of the other 14% tend to live clustered together in urban areas.

It makes some white people very uncomfortable when that is questioned doesn't it?

Yes I have would agree it does. Rapid change and fear of the unknown always makes ordinary people feel vulnerable. It happened with the industrial revolution but the Luddites got over it eventually. Grin

DontDrinkandFacebook · 01/03/2015 16:52

ha! I can see it took me so long to compose that essay that lots of you have already said the same thing. Grin

HouseWhereNobodyLives · 01/03/2015 17:18

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HouseWhereNobodyLives · 01/03/2015 17:21

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Nancy66 · 01/03/2015 17:36

During the leaked Sony email scandal, the head of a studio acknowledged that Denzel Washington was a fine actor but said they couldn't cast him because audiences stay away when the lead is black.

slightly off point but , no, OP you're not imagining it.

FriendlyLadybird · 01/03/2015 17:38

It's not just a case of perceptions of beauty. One of my DH's big beefs is the lack of black women in the media in general. I hadn't noticed it before he pointed it out but it's true that you can see that advertisers have tried to "do diversity", but almost always through presenting a couple in which the man is black and the woman is white. Where are the black women? And where are the black couples? Don't they ever apply for mortgages or buy car insurance or go to the supermarket?

HouseWhereNobodyLives · 01/03/2015 17:42

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LiDLrichardsPistachioSack · 01/03/2015 17:44

I get that the majority of the population in the UK is white. It's the implication that our physical attributes is the default setting for attractiveness that I don't agree with. That certain physical characteristics associated with black women are considered less than ideal.

Rapid change and fear of the unknown always makes ordinary people feel vulnerable.

"Ordinary people"? "Fear of the Unknown"? Really???

BeattieBow · 01/03/2015 17:48

I agree with you OP. In this country, and world wide, it is white people who are considered the beauty ideal. In many (non-white) countries the ideal is to lighten skin, narrow noses, widen eyes etc. In this country there is a massive under-representation of black, asian people in the media and tv.

I don't believe it's simply because white models sell more products - if this is the case why aren't there more black actors? It was in the press only this week that some black actors have relocated to the US because there aren't any roles for them here. The real reason is probably more unpalatable than that.

I also agree that many black models and actors do have more "white" features.

LiDLrichardsPistachioSack · 01/03/2015 17:50

When people come out with obviously false statements like this it really makes them sound defensive, as if they are wilfully ignoring the reality.

This.
It's the same people who say "but what about racism against white people????