Free Birth

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Am watching the programme on the BBC about Childbirth All or Nothing.

I had two of my kids at home which everyone at the time thought was a bit "out there".

AIBU to think "Free Birth" with planned no medical intervention or medical professional present is maybe a risk too far and possibly not fair on the baby should it need medical intervention?

I am prepared to be told IABU.

"I'm just confused as to why you backtrack and essentially change your story"

Where?

Having been through 3 hospital managed (nightmare) births I'm beginning to wish I had gone with any of the birth choices of the women on that documentary.

My births weren't a nightmare because of medical reasons - they were a nightmare because I was in a horrible delivery suite, with midwives nagging me to be monitored when I was in agony if I lay on my back. They then made me give birth lying on my back, when I asked to be on all fours. Things like that. I get 'white-coat high blood pressure' according to my gp, so this was the worse thing for me.

I actually really admired the free birth woman - she looked happy and relaxed.

Wish I'd gone with a water birth now - but the hospital were really arsey about it.

I found the program so offensive in so many ways. Each woman was made to look ridiculous to varying degrees.

The elective csection woman, who I expected to disagree with the most but actually didn't, just came across as a bit detached and pandering to her pushy husband. However, she was at least honest about herself and respected other people's differing views.

Meatshake and lotus births really aren't my thing, but they seem harmless enough and if it makes mum feel happy then to each her own.

The free birther just seemed desperate to be alternative and make a point of criticising every other birth option. I'm not a big fan of anyone, particularly women, criticising women who can't breathe babies out. I think it does us all a huge disservice to dismiss anyone who requires drugs or intervention as potentially just having approached birth with the wrong mindset. Everyone is different, sometimes medicalisation and drugs are necessary and all our birth choices are valid. However, any talk about how natural childbirth is as a reason to avoid medicalisation should always be caveated with an acknowledgment of the much higher rates of mother and baby mortality where medical intervention isn't available. Yes it's natural and yes many women manage without intervention or drugs, but that doesn't mean those who were less fortunate are somehow weaker or misinformed. I'm glad everything worked out well for her, but she's very lucky.

minifingers no there is no established study of freebirthing.

But there are plenty of studies to corroborate the fact that even when pregnancies are low-risk, 15-20% of births involve potentially fatal complications that develop DURING DELIVERY.

well, I don't mean delivery, I mean while giving birth. Actually.

I just gave birth yesterday, and my very low risk home birth delivery got complicated when she turned back to back. Many complications later she was finally born but went into shock and was totally unresponsive. Thank god the midwives were there. I can't even bear to think about if that had been a free birth. It's so so so not worth the risk. And pointess too when you can have a very intervention-less labour with midwives present just in case.

Congratulations Foulsome!

Similarly, I had a straightforward home hypno water birth [lentils] but he just didn't want to breathe for a good while. I licked him [crunchy lentils] and he took a first breath, but very shallow and insufficient.

Luckily I had two highly experienced midwives in the room with all their kit who resuscitated him.

Free birthing isn't natural or sensible IMHO. Women have always sought out a woman of experience to help.

Free birthing might not be sensible but the question should be why are women even considering it? IME as a HCP, it's because some women have no faith in MW or doctors. Many have had a traumatic experience and have no wish to repeat it. One women in my care told me she would rather have her baby alone on her kitchen floor than submit to a hospital birth again.

"But there are plenty of studies to corroborate the fact that even when pregnancies are low-risk, 15-20% of births involve potentially fatal complications that develop DURING DELIVERY."

The response of some who believes that unassisted birth is a good thing would be to suggest that most of these problems were caused by the mother not having an 'undisturbed birth'. Ie they are iatrogenic.

Incidentally, the 'true' rates of severe problems in birth is really hard to know. The Farm birth centre in the USA transfers fewer than 5% of mothers. And in the UK over 95% of healthy low risk women having their second or subsequent baby (like the free birthing mum in the programme) will have a straightforward birth, unless they give birth in an obstetric unit in which case they're much more likely to have complications.

(Those stats come from the Birth Place study by the way).

mrsHathaway you licked him? I applaud your calm rationale there, I'd have gone into complete panic.

Beatrice - I also know women who have 'accidentally on purpose' had unassisted births at home. One had been given an episiotomy without consent in hospital and was still angry about it three years on...

before the birth womans body and right to do what she wants.

as soon as the baby is outside of the body (so arguably during birth) the mother (and father maybe?) have a duty of care to protect their baby and provide all necessary medical attention as required.

I woild say it is potentially neglect.

It's dangerous & neglectful to her unborn baby. Why take the risk when she is lucky enough to be provided with medically trained professional care free of charge in her own home. I haven't watch the show but I can't think of any reason why she should refuse such help. She doesn't realise how lucky she is.

Ruperta, people who free birth may feel very strongly that the presence of a stranger at the birth and routine interference, actually puts the baby at risk by making a dysfunctional labour more likely.

Yep, I licked him. As part of my hypno preparation I had looked at lots of mammal births, and a good firm lick like a cat or a cow tells them they've been born and it's time to breathe.

In that horrible moment where two midwives were saying "come on, baby, breathe" I was still in the hypno zone and remembered how to tell him it was lungs time. In fact I didn't really come to for another few minutes. I certainly didn't register the danger he was in until days or weeks later.

Which, to get neatly back on topic, was why I needed midwives there and not just DH.

We'll mini fingers they can think what they want but someone sjould tell them that if tgat is there reasoning it is a load of bullshit.

There are thousands of women in other countrys (developed & third world) everyday who would give up their right arm for a midwife with birthing experience at their birth.

Sorry for typos cracked screen on iPhone!

"We'll mini fingers they can think what they want but someone sjould tell them that if tgat is there reasoning it is a load of bullshit."

It's bullshit that birthing alone is more likely to result in a straightforward birth?

I'm not sure that it is.

Women sometimes need emergency medical help in labour and not having access to it sometimes results in a tragedy.

But it also could be the case perhaps that medical 'supervision' and routine monitoring might have a disruptive impact on some labours and make problems more likely. It's not a completely bonkers concept...

I think most people would accept the higher risk of labour difficulties for the reassurance that comes with having quick medical input should there be a real emergency - but not everyone.

Errr... tell them their reasoning is bullshit in the same way you would tell a clinically depressed person to 'snap out of it'.

Yep, that's good understanding of mental health.

You are failing to understand that being traumatised or phobic are classed as anxiety disorders. As in a health issue in its own right. A health issue that is as real as your leg hanging off after a car accident, though perhaps more complex in nature.

The problem with poor mental health is precisely because irrational and emotional thought takes over and the person concerned can not assess things in the same way that they would if they are well.

Unfortunately, its this type of ignorance that makes it even harder for women who are struggling to seek help and acknowledge that their thought process is flawed. One of the ways of coping is precisely to rationalise the irrational and indeed convince themselves of something beyond what other people would see as logical.

In this case though as minifingers says there is a line of truth that runs through pretty much every piece of research I've seen whether it be pro-vb or pro-cs that suggests that women need to feel as calm and un-anxious as possible when giving birth. (This includes the 'security' of labouring in hospital for some women whilst for others this would be the 'security' of home. It merely depends on the type of person you are).

So there actually is a degree of 'method to the madness' in this type of thought. Which in turn does make it harder to untangle if you are dealing with someone who is perhaps in denial of the risks of giving birth as it is possible to minimise what potentially could go wrong.

In this context, the important of getting a woman to engage in ante-natal care really does have even more significance.

mrsHathaway you're amazing!

Surely the point is that belief is not the same as knowledge based on evidence.

It's a bit like the 'safer in hospital' argument, it's not what the evidence shows. There are specific risks to hospital births, that people conveniently forget.

My hb midwives certainly believe that medical practitioners slow labour. It's their policy to stay out of the way as much as possible.

Incidentally, for me the main difference between my hb and second hospital birth was which bed I got into afterwards. It was vastly nicer and easier recovering at home than in hospital.

I know women who have been diagnosed with PTSD after labour, and have attributed the experience to the handling of the birth rather than the medical events. I know a woman who was given VEs against her wishes and her husband told to hold her down - her marriage was almost destroyed and she has since reported the doctor for assault. These are not women who have a great deal of confidence in medical professionals. Try getting into that mindset and then thinking through how you might react to the prospect of your second birth.

Women in developing countries undoubtedly need more medical expertise for antenatal care and for complicated births, and we are very, very lucky in what we have on offer here. But those women do tend to give birth with experienced and knowledgeable support, just not medically qualified ones. A number of the potentially fatal complications that arise during childbirth can be dealt with by someone who knows what they're doing, outwith a medical setting. They go from potentially fatal to sorted very quickly, eg nuchal cords. It is very sad that there are women who end up rejecting the extensive and professional support our trained midwives could offer them because of their previous experiences with medical staff.

I think women's fears of medical settings can be very genuine and it's important that these women are allowed the option of home birth, with a midwife who takes a backseat as much as possible, but free birthing takes it a step too far IMO.