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AIBU?

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Original poster

to think they should charge the Syria girls

999 replies

adsy · 21/02/2015 08:14

If they are indeed with terrorists in Syria then when a small chink of sense comes back to them and they want to come home, I hope they will be charged.

OP posts:
ArcheryAnnie · 23/02/2015 18:52

David Norris was also 16 when he murdered Stephen Lawrence. By the logic of some of you on this thread, he was too young to be held responsible for his crime as he was "just a child" and children are "innocent".

Did I want to see him punished? Yes, I did. But I also think his life must have gone horribly wrong for this to have happened. I want there to be investigations into what led a teenager to kill another, and I want Norris to understand - fully, completely understand - what he did wrong. My DS is a boy, a teenager, and brown. I don't want there to be any more David Norrises as they directly affect the safety of my boy and many like him. I think understanding and unpacking David Norris' crime will help this happen.

tiggytape · 23/02/2015 18:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

limitedperiodonly · 23/02/2015 18:58

There must be something very wrong with their upbringing for these 15 yo girls to (a) want to go away from their family and (b) to admire such evil evil people

If that's what keeps you warm at night JudgeRinderSays...

I think it's much more likely that teenagers get involved with other bad influences than murderous jihadis.

I also think it's complacent to believe that this won't happen to you.

Mumzy · 23/02/2015 19:00

Large Parts of Bethnal Green are ghettos where schools and housing estates are 95% Bengali and where people can just live in their own communities very easily without having to come into meaningful contact with the rest of society on a regular basis.
Most will also only marry within their own communities and men and women live segregated lives

WannaBe · 23/02/2015 19:01

that link about denmark is interesting, but I'm not sure it's yet fair to say that after just seven weeks it is effective. Denmark has had more radicals join IS than any other country in Europe, the fact that this figure has dropped is encouraging but it's going to take signifficant amounts of time before it can be deemed effective.

And what in the meantime. It's a dangerous situation to put people in, to bring back jihadi's under new identities and hope that they don't slip through the net and radicalise others or worse, commit acts of terrorism under the watchful eye of the authorities. There are plenty of cases where it has emerged after the event that someone was known to the authorities. Is inteligence strong enough and equipped enough to stop this from happening?

Joyfulldeathsquad · 23/02/2015 19:02

I thought this was a good article in the guardian here

ArcheryAnnie · 23/02/2015 19:04

True, tiggy, but a sixteen year old is different than an 18 year old, who is different from a 66 year old.

(I'm one of those who don't want 16 year olds to get the vote, BTW - even though I had left home and was living an independent life at 16 myself. An awful lot happens to you, your brain and your body between 12 and 18.)

limitedperiodonly · 23/02/2015 19:11

ArcheryAnnie I read a piece by Yasmin Alibhai Brown after 7/7 and the killing of Jean Charles De Menezes.

I don't like her all the time, but this struck a chord.

She'd pleaded with her sons not to carry rucksacks on the Tube and London buses in case they'd be suspected and targeted by death squads - and I think that's what we can call the people responsible for Menezes' shooting.

They laughed it off because they were 20 and she was their silly middle-aged mum.

That was in my head when OP talked about the horror of sitting next to someone on the Tube with a ticking time bomb.

It's just a rucksack. With a clock in it. Get a fucking grip.

woodhill · 23/02/2015 19:16

good points Scattergro

Original poster
adsy · 23/02/2015 19:17

What are you on about limited it was you, wasn't it that said you were more scared of me than you were of a terrorist bomber?
So if you were sat next to someone whose rucksack was literally ticking would you think "oh, young chap is just taking his alarm clock out for the day" or would you think "fuckin hell, I',m getting off at the next stop".
There again, according to you, if I was stood waiting at the next platform you'd rather be blown up than stand near me

OP posts:
Original poster
adsy · 23/02/2015 19:19

Gosh I have a bad memory. I thought the menezes shooting was a cock up by the met. police, not a result of Rio de janero type death squads. OOps.

OP posts:
Original poster
adsy · 23/02/2015 19:23

in fact I didn't even know we had death squads in London. I really must keep up with current affairs more. have you got a link for me please limited?

OP posts:
limitedperiodonly · 23/02/2015 19:25

What are you on about limited it was you, wasn't it that said you were more scared of me than you were of a terrorist bomber?

That is very true, OP.

Your views still scare me more than any IS terrorist ever could.

Original poster
adsy · 23/02/2015 19:28

So you think the views of an ISIS terrorist are less scary than my view ( and that of the rest of the rational world) that ISIS are dangerous and abhorrent? really? You are sounding unhinged and very very dangerous.

OP posts:
Original poster
adsy · 23/02/2015 19:29

You know, the worst I would ever do is disagree with the pokitical or moral viewpoints of someone. you want some links to the worst that ISIS can do? most won't be allowed to be shown as they are too horrific but I could do my best. believe me , it's a different realm to me saying I think your view is wrong.

OP posts:
Original poster
adsy · 23/02/2015 19:32

How likely do you think it is that I would murder or rape a child? or behead someone? or burn them alive? it's disgusting and horribly insulting to say I am in some way scarier than these subhumans. you should be ashamed of yourself.
My "scary" view is that I believe the girls should be charged if they have joined ISIS. Yeah, frigging horrifc, I am.

OP posts:
limitedperiodonly · 23/02/2015 19:32

Modern bombs don't tick.

I think I've said Isis are scary and abhorrent.

Shall we agree to disagree about who gets the prize for being the most unhinged?

Roseformeplease · 23/02/2015 19:33

I work with teens and they do some incredibly stupid things, even the bright ones. They are much worse when in packs as they egg each other on. 4 teenaged boys who climbed under a road bridge, over rocks and water and got stuck, one of them breaking a leg and were rescued using 3 different emergency services (fire, ambulance and lifeboat / coastguard). A teenaged girl who is miles behind at school but has just taken two days off for cookery course, having missed a day for football. All told not to. All warned.

I don't begin to know what is going on in these girls' minds but they are in a world where anything and everything is online. Vast numbers of girls send naked photos of themselves. Teens bully and troll. All warned.

Really, they are open to so many forces other than their parents. I also suspect it requires much less bravery to go as a 3 than to go alone - they have been groomed, and then egged each other on.

Punishment needs to be considered but only in the light of the full story and only if they have broken the law, not because some Daily Mail readers want them hanged and flogged.....really, if you convict them based on the limited information in the press then you are reactionaries yourselves, not concerned with truth and justice.

Original poster
adsy · 23/02/2015 19:35

Figure of speech love, figure of speech.
You are the most insulting person I have ever encountered. I'm disgusted .

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 23/02/2015 19:47

It's been reported that in France, passports have been removed from six people who were planning to travel and join ISIS: english.alarabiya.net/en/News/world/2015/02/23/Six-French-have-passports-confiscated-for-planning-Syria-trip.html

Obviously I'm not aware how the security people knew of their plans, but hasn't it been said that EU laws prevents this kind of action? Thing is, if the French can do it, why can't we??

AuntieStella · 23/02/2015 19:48

Well, I haven't read the DM on this.

I have read this thread, which is about whether they should be charged if they have met up with terrorists from a proscribed organisation.

That doesn't preclude deradicalisation efforts for the individuals (if they can be retrieved, some reports say it might be too late already).

Trying to make it an either/or argument when (for many on this thread at least) strikes me as utterly counterproductive.

I think it is important that they face exactly the same on return (from Syria if that is where they are) as anyone else who returns after spending time with IS terrorists.

The last thing we need is to open a way for IS to send teenage 'sleepers' here, if they conclude anything from this incident suggests there is a category of person who will not be subject to UK's usual measures.

Moonatic · 23/02/2015 19:53

These "schoolgirls" have willingly gone to take part in a genocide.

Evidence from their own twitter feeds suggests they have seen photos and videos of ISIS atrocities - and been inspired to take part.

Excuse me if I feel no sympathy for them. I'll reserve mine for the thousands of people being raped, murdered and enslaved by their heroes.

Joyfulldeathsquad · 23/02/2015 19:53

I think posters need to come away from the 'they are just children' excuse.

At 16 I had my first flat and just had dd1 - wilfully stupid yes but I was aware of what choices I was taking and responsible enough to look after myself and dd1. There is a difference from being silly and stupid to running away to join a barbaric murderous cult. When I look at dd1 now (20) she still seems like a child - to me. But I know she isn't.

These girls were not silly. There were academically driven, their friend has spoken about it. An A grade was not enough, the had to achieve A*. These girls would have spent time discussing this,reading about ISIS, investigating it. They didn't run off in a flght of fancy.

IF they they were allowed back, I'd be worried. And yes the muslim population is small, and the extremists even smaller but you only need one to make utter chaos and carnage. When people stop pretending this is all fabricated,media selling lies, I think then we can tackle the problem.

I don't even think they should be allowed back. They wanted to leave so let them.They are somebody else's problem now.

ghostyslovesheep · 23/02/2015 19:58

you are definitely not unhinged Limited love Grin

loiner45 · 23/02/2015 19:58

we don't know why they've gone, one of their sisters has said it might be to bring back their friend. There's an awful lot of leaping to conclusions going on here.

moomatic said "These "schoolgirls" have willingly gone to take part in a genocide.
Evidence from their own twitter feeds suggests they have seen photos and videos of ISIS atrocities - and been inspired to take part."

sources and evidence please?!? all I can find is mention that one of them sent one message to the scottish woman who we know did join IS. What if that message was "do you know where our friend is?" please link to the evidence you say is out there.