To not be surprised our kids are so fat

[Babycham1979]

When they're fed utter crap like this;

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/food/article-2957301/What-school-lunches-look-like-world.html

No wonder obesity rates are so high,mand no wonder so many British children are incredibly picky when they're fed processed shite as is evident in these pictures. Imagine some of the pickiest UK children being handed a bowl of miso soup, or prawns, or plantain?!

Is the issue budgetary, or culture? Either way, we're failing our children.

sorcha think you got a bit confused

sorcha really ...wow...who is this 'we'?
Not just the daily fail etc -but I did know some research scientists who worked on type 2 diabetes who would disagree with you ...
(not my area but I did some related undergraduate work in the field - in fact for a time this was the area I wanted to pursue my research career in)
In a nutshelll - reduced insulin sensitivity/ insulin resistance leads to excessive insulin production, leads to type 2 diabetes which if untreated then becomes insulin dependent type 2 diabetes (pancreas can no longer make insulin)...
To quote one (of many many references)
Obesity is associated with an increased risk of developing insulin resistance and type 2 diabetes. In obese individuals, adipose tissue releases increased amounts of non-esterified fatty acids, glycerol, hormones, pro-inflammatory cytokines and other factors that are involved in the development of insulin resistance. When insulin resistance is accompanied by dysfunction of pancreatic islet beta-cells - the cells that release insulin - failure to control blood glucose levels results. Abnormalities in beta-cell function are therefore critical in defining the risk and development of type 2 diabetes. This knowledge is fostering exploration of the molecular and genetic basis of the disease and new approaches to its treatment and prevention
Kahn SE et al Nature. 2006 Dec 14;444(7121):840-6.

or
Obesity is characterized by increased storage of fatty acids in an expanded adipose tissue mass and is closely associated with the development of insulin resistance in peripheral tissues such as skeletal muscle and the liver.
In contrast to leptin, adiponectin secretion is often diminished in obesity. Adiponectin acts to increase insulin sensitivity, fatty acid oxidation, as well as energy expenditure and reduces the production of glucose by the liver.
Galic. S et al Mol Cell Endocrinol. 2010 Mar 25;316(2):129-39. doi: 10.1016/j.mce.2009.08.018. Epub 2009 Aug 31.

I could go on...

Well, technically it's the visceral fat around internal organs that can easily cause T2 diabetes. Fat is an organ all by itself, and in the liver it interferes with organ function and eventually insulin balance. This is why 'thin' people can get type 2 diabetes, it's a disease of sedentary lifestyle.

Being sedentary makes you fat, too. And the fat on the outside usually comes before the diabetes because liver damage is a long term thing. Too much fat around your internal organs also increases chances of cancers, other liver diseases, dementia, heart disease. Well nasty.

Sumo wrestlers don't get type 2 diabetes very often. Neither do people with Praed Willy syndrome. Because they aren't putting down fat in the liver.

This starts to explain in lay person way, but lots and lots of scientific papers out of that team & related researchers.

If you eat a lot of sugar and fizzy drinks you are likely to get type II diabetes and to get very over weight.
As someone else said there is a link to dementia too - they are calling it diabetes 3 which is also linked to sugar.
So if people can just revert to the way people ate until about 40 or 100 years ago and eat good healthy whole foods - meat, fish, veg, eggs, sea food etc you cannot go far wrong. Drink water. Get outside etc etc.

Easier said and done for many though.
Mind you if you don';t have junk in the house children don't eat it. I 've had friends of the chidlren in this house and they literally cannot believe there is not a biscuit, cake, crisps or drink other than tap water in the house. They open the cupboards and are astounded that instead we happen to have real lovely good food that is delicious and no rubbishy foods. God knows what those children's parents buy for them.

God knows what those children's parents buy for them.

Hopefully a good all round varied diet that includes the odd pack of crisps, biscuits and cake now and then.

Sorry but I've seen too many kids gorge themselves sick as soon as they go to a friends house/start getting pocket money, because their parents made this sort of food out to be some sort of 'sin'.

Moderation and self discipline - not blanket banning.

If your children can learn that ^^ it can set them up for life in all areas, not only food.

But jilly what about when they get older? Have money to buy their own food when out with friends etc? It all changes then

Moderation and self discipline - not blanket banning.

Exactly. I hate the idea of having good and bad foods, no food is bad it's just that some you should eat less of than others.

Mind you if you don';t have junk in the house children don't eat it. I 've had friends of the chidlren in this house and they literally cannot believe there is not a biscuit, cake, crisps or drink other than tap water in the house. They open the cupboards and are astounded that instead we happen to have real lovely good food that is delicious and no rubbishy foods. God knows what those children's parents buy for them.

Yes, we don't have any sweet stuff in the house because I would scoff it all although if we are out I don't deny ds treats etc. Of course as he has got older he has become aware of crap food and obviously loves it, but we just don't have it as 'the norm'.

It means that a 'snack' to him is a piece of fruit/toast/breadsticks, not biscuits/muffins/crisps. 'Breakfast' is cornflakes/weetabix/porridge, not cookie crisp/cocopops/krave. A drink is water/milk, not orange juice/fizzy drink.

And all the 'oh but they won't eat anything other than coco pops for breakfast' is total bollocks as well. Just dont let them have it that often in the first place. If I gave DS cocopops at home for a month and then tried to get him back on porridge, then obviously he would stick to fingers up at me as we (metaphorically speaking of course!). Cocopops to him are a 'treat' breakfast that he occasionally has at his grandparents or on holiday, but when we are back in routine, he is perfectly happy with the boring healthy breakfasts because that is what is normal to him.

I know that sounds smug but I dont give a fuck.

Oh and before anyone says, I don't call foods 'good and bad' - I don't need to as DS knows the ones we have lots of and the ones we have less of (the 'treats' which are lovely but we just don't have them every day).

So you only don't have these things in the house because you would scoff them all Christy?

That's what I mean about self discipline and people (kids especially), needing to learn it.

Look at all the threads at Christmas where grown women can't have a family tin of chocolates in the house without eating them all to themselves, and having to replace them 3 times from November to December.

Then they throw everything away in January that hasn't been eaten because again, they don't trust themselves.

So how can they ever teach their children?

Yes, I was brought up in a household where nothing was restricted and I have real issues with scoffing 20 chocs instead of one. I was never overweight but only because we were incredibly active kids.

As I said my sister who was brought up in exactly the same household has a small appetite and loads of self discipline and has always been smaller than me (I am a 12, she is a 6-8).

I don't even know if it can be taught?!

I don't know, I can see no harm in not having crisps in the house and just occasionally having them when we are out.

I just also feel the need to clarify that we never allow crisps or chocolate to pass our lips once we have crossed over the threshold of our house, of course we sometimes do, I am just talking about a 'normal' day!

I mean its not the case that we never allow crisps and choc over the threshold - I'm just gonna shut up now!

So your parents were one extreme and you are now the other?

There is a middle ground and that's the one that so many people find hard, until they learn self discipline.

Sorry X posted.

I was just going on you saying "Yes, we don't have any sweet stuff in the house because I would scoff it all although if we are out I don't deny ds treats etc."

But I see I took it a bit too literally.

"Kids" food. Why?
What is wrong with children eating what the adults do?
My dc has the occasional sweetie but tbh doesn't like them.
Just come home from a dinner part where they scoffed ; lasagne, curry, baba gounash , Roquefort, fruit salad.
Also isn't glued to X box and the like.

I never buy organic and don't shop at health food stores ( another con) but I and my kids eat " normal" regular food. Nothing you couldn't find at your local market.

It's not just the availability of crisps sweets cakes and biscuits. It's the levels of sugar, salt and types of fats in bread, meats and food items that when traditionally reared/grown and produced were much healthier. I was very annoyed to find that when my elder son was taking food technology that he was told off because I didn't buy "low fat cheese" for a particular recipe; is it really any healthier for a growing teen to eat low fat cheese?

When I look at so called "full fat milk" nowadays it is like water; no cream floating at the top. I cannot help but notice that when eating whole foods (meat and dairy with the natural fat) you naturally feel fuller quicker and eat less. If you snack on salty or sugary foods you crave more of the same and therefore eat more food full stop. Also, how many people nowadays drink water as their main drink? squashes, juices, milkshakes, fizzy drinks, hot chocolate... have become the norm which are additional dead calories. Whereas it used to be normal to consider soup a meal people now regard it as a starter.

We were getting through 4/5 loaves of cheap bread a day (family of 11 so not as bad as it sounds) so I switched to real bread from our local bakery. I still spend 4 a day on bread but on 2 large natural loaves a single sandwich of which makes a filling lunch even for my elder steps who have physical jobs as a hodd carrier and as a street cleanser. We still get through 16 pints of milk a day but I think if I could find some of the old fashioned silver top that the milkman used to bring it would go down to 12 pints!

I also firmly believe that the stress hormone cortisol has a lot to do with the increase in obesity in this country. The human body does not distinguish between physical and mental stress, the sleep deprivation we experience with newborns...I don't think I'm the only mum who craved cake at 2am! Maybe so called "comfort eating" is actually routed in chemical science?

is it a case of the government subsidising junk food manufacturers? How on earth do they expect mothers with a hectic lifestyles scrutinising every jar of jam, baked beans or even weight watchers ready meals to make sense of it? 'Low Fat' seems these days to be another word for 'High Sugar' and vice versa. Anyone noticed? Why cant government clamp down on junk food manufacturers and the problem will be solved

How will the problem be solved?

People will still eat too much food if they're that way inclined, and take too little exercise to burn off the amount of food they consume.

You don't have to scrutinise every jar of jam and baked beans etc. If you're going to eat too much food and exercise too little, nothing will change.

And another thing with regards to childhood "obesity".
When in year nine (last year) my son was weighed during a science lesson and labelled obese.
He was 6 foot with a 32 in inside leg and a 28inch waist, 38inch chest, abs, pecs and visible ribs yet weighed nearly 100kg.
The label was based on BMI.
As a result he stopped eating for several weeks and it was only then that I found out what had happened and went balistic at the school. During those weeks he had stopped climbing and running and cycling and playing rugby because he had less energy from not eating and slept more. He is now 6 foot 2 and about 90kg but at 14 still has some growing to do.

At 12, I studied judo and therefore remember that I was fighting in the under 80kg catagory competitively, generally against adults because I was 5 foot 7 and nowadays that would have put me in overweight against BMI. Yet I had a 24 inch waist, 36 inch hips and a 38 inch bust.

If you have any kind of bone or muscle density from regular exercise during childhood, you may find yourself labelled obese incorrectly because body mass index is based on flawed averaging!

My daughter was weighed this year in year 6. I told her (before and afterwards) that it didn't matter what the result is and why it doesn't matter. Many of her friends were not weighed because their parents were worried they'd be branded obese or overweight. Surely we should focus on the proportions of a figure rather than the weight as such?

The governments timing of weighing children for these stats sucks. between 11 and 13 has got to be the most stupid time to make a child paranoid about their weight...surely that'll cause more eating disorders than airbrushing!

TBH I'll worry about obesity when I stop having to search for jeans for my kids with the buttons and elastic inside that makes the waist 4-8 inches smaller!

My DCs aren't fat. Come to think of it, I don't see many fat children. Im not saying they don't exist - I just don't think there's a huge number of fat children around or you'd see them everywhere/daily. Yes it is an issue when a child is obese and that should certainly be addressed...but Im a bit "hmmm" re. the scaremongering programmes that make it sound as if there are legions of fat kids everywhere. I don't think they're helpful

When I look at so called "full fat milk" nowadays it is like water; no cream floating at the top.

I agree with most of your points wholeheartedly, but just as info, that detail is because milk is homogenised now. If you buy organic milk from Waitrose they offer "normal" organic and "Duchy" organic, both are the same price but the Duchy isn't homogenised. Big layer of cream at the neck of the bottle. The fat content identical.

More to the point is why we give kids skimmed or semi-skimmed milk, and then pour it over a bowl of Honey Nut, or Coco Pops. You might as well give a slice of cake with a vitamin tablet and call that a balanced breakfast - except a homemade cake does at least contain butter and eggs.

Portion control is the issue, along with sugar and a reliance on processed fats instead of naturally occurring, IMO. I don't agree that kids aren't bigger now; you think a child whose ribs are showing is really skinny, yet when I look at pictures of us as kids, we were all that way. We feed much more sugar, much more processed food, and far larger portions. Weight gain is always going to be likely.

Incidentally, baked beans are perfectly healthy. Okay there's added sugar and salt, but Heinz sell a reduced version which hasn't been replaced with artificial sweeteners and it's cannoli beans in tomato sauce, yet people talk about it as junk food which given most kids don't eat anything like enough pulses is a bit daft. It's like the hysteria over sugar in yoghurt - sure, a sweetened yoghurt is a pudding food and it has a lot of sugar, but most of that sugar is still usually lactose, which is present in milk as well. It's not processed and refined. A plain yoghurt with chopped fruit is healthier but if your child will only eat fruit yoghurt then it's hardly the end of the world, if they don't also get a chocolate bar and a can of coke to go with.

DS is under the care of a paediatrician for some issues he has, and she said a lot of kids suffer from depleted iron reserves because parents have absorbed the idea that homemade burgers, for example, are bad for them - MacDonalds is, homemade can be a valuable source of iron as well as protein. TBH I think our ideas on food are fairly fucked up, which is unsurprising when that famous food plate recommends as much white starch as it does fruit and veg.

I agree a pudding after every school meal is ridiculous, especially as the schools often ban all puddings other than fruit from packed lunches! DS now asks why he isn't getting that at home. I tell him he is, and it's called fruit. He gets a traditional pudding at weekends, not midweek.

Re diabetes, much of the so-called information posted above suffers from the usual post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy, largely because it is either oversimplified or because it is poorly reported. In fact, it is still impossible to say with any certainty that obesity causes diabetes, and part of the difficulty is that when obesity and type two diabetes coincide, the obesity has been observed before the diagnosis, which leads to the assumption that the obesity has actually been present before the diabetes (i.e. confirmation bias).

However, since very few people are routinely tested for diabetes, it is impossible to know when the diabetes actually began (since it can be asymptomatic for years), and therefore impossible to know whether it caused the obesity, was caused by the obesity, or whether there is no meaningful relationship between the two conditions. Theoretical explanations (such as some of those noted above) do not actually answer this question, although they can help to explain the progression of diabetes.

What is certainly known is that some treatments for diabetes can cause weight gain, and therefore the increased prevalence of diabetes contributes to the recent rise in the prevalence of obesity. And that's one reason why medical causes of obesity do not represent a tiny proportion in terms of the incidence of obesity.

Depression is another condition that is increasing in prevalence and contributing to the rise in obesity... I wonder whether people are generally more sympathetic to obese people with depression than to obese people with diabetes...