To think that if men don't want babies they should wear a condom?

[MrsTawdry]

I have been arguing on another forum with some men who think that if a man has sex with a woman and she says she's on the pill...and isn't...then all the fault for the unwanted baby lies with her.

whilst I agree that most of the blame is with her, surely it makes sense for a man who does not want a baby to make double sure that he cannot end up with one by wearing a condom?

They say I am victim blaming....that if a couple has an agreement about the pill, then he has been "raped" in a way and that the promise should be enough.

I said why take the risk though? And they tried to liken it to a man filming all sexual encounters to ensure that no accusation of rape could occurr and that by suggesting men "be prepared" I am as bad as people who say women shouldn/t wear short skirts or go out alone after dark.

Am I being unreasonable then? Fully prepared to be told if I am and accept it. I just can't see it at the moment though.

But there is a huge difference in the risk of the woman becoming pregnant when she is taking the pill and when she lies about taking it and is fertile. (And presumabley the man would not willingly take the second, hence the discussion).

Yanbu my partner of 10 years is adamant no more babies. I'm not too fussed I've been on depo injections for a few years but recent stopped them I'm sure my painful joints and moodiness is because of the depo. My DP asked what I'm going on next er nothing!? I'm giving my body a rest from chemicals he doesn't want a baby he either has the snip or buys condoms! I got this look .

Agree with Goldmantra The failure rate for the condom is 15% (typical use) so even if a man was using one they should not expect that a baby definitely wouldn't result from having sex. A vasectomy is more reliable but is still not 100%, no contraceptive is, so they only way to be completely sure is to abstain entirely. If a man is mature enough to be having sex, he should be mature enough to accept that a potential consequence will be parenthood.

YANBU at all. Women have more options afterwards but those all come with a price. Men only get one choice & one chance, there's no serious bad side to it (I don't care how it feels to use, there's no chemical side effects, no medicine to take, no physical object inside you, no abortion - if it makes it not worth it then just don't, problem still solved?) and if they won't use it they can't complain.

You shouldn't have sex with people you think are out to get you anyway! How can you think she's deliberately tricking you into a baby but you're not worried you'll catch something off her? And if you trust her but you absolutely cannot be having a kid, why not protect yourself from her forgetfulness/food poisoning/whatever. Men will say anything to get out of their responsibilities no matter how little sense it makes.

Of course men should be responsible and wear a condom......BUT they have the option of walking away if a child is conceived - if they are even on the scene when the pregnancy is discovered......

They aren't the ones getting pregnant are they. Even if they are proved to be the father, good luck with getting financial support.

It's like the joke - why do dogs lick their bollocks? Because they can.

There are no dire consequences for them, no incentive to wear condoms.

For a one night stand or casual/short term relationship, YANBU.

For a long term relationship YABU. It's a trust issue.

I actually had a conversation about this with a friend today. She's been in hospital for a few days and hasn't been taking her contraception pill. She was umming and aahing about whether it was the risk if she was to start taking it again straight away and likely to be having sex again within a few days. I asked her what her husband thinks. She's too embarrassed to tell him she forgot to take it to hospital with her! I said if she wants to take the risk then fine (a baby wouldn't be a disaster for either of them, they just don't feel they're ready yet) but it was hugely unfair to make the husband take the risk unknowingly.

I suspect that's a far more common scenario - not entrapment or deliberate deception, just a bit of carelessness and forgetfulness that people convince themselves won't matter and don't mention.

That's true BMW but it works both ways - they can dodge responsibility but they also don't get the choice of what happens to the baby.

If they don't want the baby and the woman does then they get an easy ride. But if they do want the baby and the woman doesn't they are left devastated.

Biological pros and cons I guess.

The failure rate for the condom is 15%

How is failure defined here? The NHS site I've just googled says the failure rate is 2%, by which they mean that 2 in 100 women whose partners always use condoms will get pregnant within a year. Is 15% the cumulation of some number of years of 2% risk?

Used properly, condoms are more than 99.5% effective

manicinsomniac True, but how many even know there IS a baby? And TBH even if they know there is a baby, I doubt the majority would want to play an active role in their child's life.

I was just making DH's packed lunch for work tonight, and I wondered how many children he has unknowingly fathered? 17 years in the Army travelling the world, countless one night stands (condoms only always used with prostitutes).....most men (IMO and his) they see it as the woman's responsibility to protect against pregnancy, because she is the only one who will get pregnant.

(BTW we didn't meet till he'd been out of the Army for a loooong time)

No, maybe they don't, you're right. My DD2's dad doesn't know she exists (but in my defence, he did rape me) and, if I have anything to do with it, he won't ever know. He has no contact with DD1 and lives on the other side of the world.

But I was thinking more of the sad situation of accidental pregnancies within committed relationships where the child is only wanted by one party. I've never been married but I'm not sure how a marriage could survive that.

Comparison table showing the chance of pregnancy during the first year of use for different contraceptives. I've never seen any statistic showing an effectiveness as high as 99.5% for the condom; even with perfect use there is usually a 2% failure rate. And most people simply aren't perfect, they put it on too late or only use a condom some of the time, or aren't going to dash out to get the MAP immediately if it does split or have the MAP on standby etc. But even allowing a 99.5% effectiveness, that still leaves a finite chance of pregnancy, and given the vast number of people who use condoms every day, nobody should be completely shocked to find out they're expecting a child even if they use a condom every time.

I taught my two sons (now 31 and 26) to ALWAYS be responsible for their own contraception. It didn't matter if the woman said she was on the pill, patch, implants, or praying to the Virgin Mary not to conceive. It didn't matter if she said she 'didn't like condoms'. That HE, himself, was responsible for preventing any child he didn't want regardless of what she said. But that he would be responsible for any child he did create, wittingly or unwittingly, so he better bear that in mind before getting into bed. Neither of them has ever gotten anyone pregnant.

It's unfortunate that the only non-permanent methods a man has are condoms, withdrawal, or abstinence.

If he's consented to sex on the basis that you're on the pill then lying to him about it makes that sex no longer consensual.

if you are in a relationship and you decided as a couple the form of contraception will be the pill then no i don't think men should wear condoms as well. surely you should trust your partner and make life decisions together. yes the pill can fail but overall it is very effective.

in a casual relationship i never understand a man who just accepts that a woman says she is on the pill. really they just want to have sex and know the majority of the fallout will be on the woman if she falls pregnant.

Some young men on the internet seem to be obsessed with women stealing their sperm. Such conceitedness

Yanbu.

I didn't read everyone's comment but yes, in my opinion you are victim blaming. Look at what you're saying.

He should know better.
He should have protected himself.
He is responsible

She should know better.
She should have protected herself.
She is responsible.

In both cases this is a violation of person. A violation of the right to decide what happens to them. A lifetime long decision. Something that can never be forgotten.

The difference is that because men have a reputation for not wanting to follow through with pregnancy, no man can be a victim. If we said that the woman was a slut then she can't be a victim, the world would explode.

It's extremely wrong, and in my opinion, a criminal act.

Heartisaspade, I think the 15% is an average over a year for 100 people. The younger more fertile, less adept at use age are proportionally more at risk. You may be a super efficient user:) I used to have one boyfriend who used to make them kind of explode...wtf!

Great that your opinion counts for shit then Huh

If conception is not desired then belt and braces approaches work best.

LeSaor - If he's consented to sex on the basis that you're on the pill then lying to him about it makes that sex no longer consensual.

Absolutely concur. The same has been said many times about a woman and if he's not wearing a condom but claims he is that it's not actually consensual but make it a man and of course the rules are different.

The rules are not different. They are exactly the same. If you have sex, and a pregnancy results, you will be responsible for that child, financially, emotionally and in every other way. It does not matter to the child that you were lied to, that you weren't ready, that he said this or she said that. You have created a human being and you are responsible for that little person. If you do not want this, then man or woman you had best be responsible for yourself.

The 'typical use' with a failure rate of 15% includes, as stated above, putting them on at the wrong time. Now to me using a condom is fairly black and white , it's either on or off, but typical use includes those who engage in PIV sex but don't put a condom on immediately!

YANBU. The men you are arguing with on the other forum are complete dicks and probably hate women anyway. Is it a UK site because then sound a bit MRA to me?

Of course a man should use a condom if he doesn't want the woman to get pregnant. Ffs if they're old enough to have sex they're old enough to take responsibility for their own sperm!! Once in a committed relationship the couple can then make joint decisions about contraception.

Don't bother arguing with these men. They're fucking idiots and thankfully not representative of the majority of lovely men out there.

The rules are not different. They are exactly the same. If you have sex, and a pregnancy results, you will be responsible for that child, financially, emotionally and in every other way. It does not matter to the child that you were lied to, that you weren't ready, that he said this or she said that. You have created a human being and you are responsible for that little person. If you do not want this, then man or woman you had best be responsible for yourself.

This ^

The fact that someone has lied to you about contraception only changes the odds you thought there were on a pregnancy occurring. There is no option that gives 100% guaranteed prevention of pregnancy.

You both had the sex. You both chose to take the chance (regardless of what you thought the odds were). You are both responsible for the consequences, i.e. child.