Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that if men don't want babies they should wear a condom?

84 replies

MrsTawdry · 16/02/2015 09:25

I have been arguing on another forum with some men who think that if a man has sex with a woman and she says she's on the pill...and isn't...then all the fault for the unwanted baby lies with her.

whilst I agree that most of the blame is with her, surely it makes sense for a man who does not want a baby to make double sure that he cannot end up with one by wearing a condom?

They say I am victim blaming....that if a couple has an agreement about the pill, then he has been "raped" in a way and that the promise should be enough.

I said why take the risk though? And they tried to liken it to a man filming all sexual encounters to ensure that no accusation of rape could occurr and that by suggesting men "be prepared" I am as bad as people who say women shouldn/t wear short skirts or go out alone after dark.

Am I being unreasonable then? Fully prepared to be told if I am and accept it. I just can't see it at the moment though.

OP posts:
fattymcfatfat · 16/02/2015 09:55

just to chuck this in, me and (ex)p had two dcs, just turned 6 and 10 months when I discovered I was pregnant again. we were using condoms as none of us wanted another at that point. I had been on the pill but couldnt get a docs appointment so had to use condoms instead. im now nearly 18 weeks pregnant and ex has tried to blame me. he knew that I wasnt on the pill which is why he had to wear condoms. its no ones fault that they failed! so now ee are in discussions as to how much child support he should pay and what needs buying (not a lot to be fair) for the new baby

ToxicTULp · 16/02/2015 09:55

Why is likening it to rape ridiculous?

I had a discussion with DH about contraception. We decided to use condoms. One time he didn't, and didn't tell me. I didn't notice. We had sex. I had a hard time dealing with it (not long had a baby, petrified of getting of again etc) and came on here for advice and the resounding response was that he had raped me.

How is the situation in OP any different?

DoJo · 16/02/2015 09:56

then all the fault for the unwanted baby lies with her.

I don't get it - why would a woman lie about being on the pill unless they wanted a baby. Or do you just mean that the baby is unwanted by the man involved? Misleading someone about contraception is an awful thing to do whoever does it - I think most people in a committed relationship would be rightly horrified to think that their partner had misled them about something so fundamental, especially if they had both agreed that barrier protection was not needed. However, a casual relationship where there are no plans to spend the rest of your lives (or even childbearing years) together is a different matter and condoms should be a priority.

PtolemysNeedle · 16/02/2015 10:01

If you're talking about men who are in a relationship who have made a decision to have sex with their girlfriend/partner knowing that they are using a form of contraception that if used correctly is very effective, then I think you're being unfair. It comes across as if you're looking to put blame on men just for the sake of it.

Plenty of women don't like using condoms, I know I don't. Horrible things as far as I'm concerned, so I wouldn't feel the need to use them while I was in a stable relationship. I'd obviously not tell a man he couldn't wear one if he wanted to, but if he didn't and I messed up my taking of the pill, I'd be prepared to take responsibility for my mistake.

DixieNormas · 16/02/2015 10:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DixieNormas · 16/02/2015 10:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mindalina · 16/02/2015 10:05

yes, wear a condom or the other foolproof option of course is to not have sex - no one's knob ever dropped off from lack of sex, amazingly. if you think they're resistant to the condom idea, see how cross they get when you suggest abstinence! some men seem to think the world owes them a shag

ChristyMooreRocks · 16/02/2015 10:08

yes, wear a condom or the other foolproof option of course is to not have sex - no one's knob ever dropped off from lack of sex, amazingly. if you think they're resistant to the condom idea, see how cross they get when you suggest abstinence! some men seem to think the world owes them a shag

What, wear a condom or abstain even in a long term relationship where the woman is (or says she is) on the pill/has a coil in etc?

PtolemysNeedle · 16/02/2015 10:11

Women who lie about being on the pill are 100% responsible for the creation of an unwanted baby.

Do you really want to create a situation where all women are mistrusted by men because they have to automatically assume that they might be being lied to? I'd hate to be doubted like that by someone I was supposed to be in a relationship with.

SweetValentine · 16/02/2015 10:15

Yabu! It's deceptive, nasty and has incredibly serious consequences. It's the man's "fault" for trusting his partner? Really?

PopularNamesInclude · 16/02/2015 10:24

Yes, of course it is his fault. He is in control of his fertility. He can use a condom. If he chooses not too, then a pregnancy results, he is legally responsible. Men can make a choice to be as safe as possible (failures happen, just like with the pill). They can also choose not to have sex.

pictish · 16/02/2015 10:25

I think it wholly depends on the length and intensity of the relationship.
If it's a fling or brand new, condoms. Further down the line you would expect that the discussion will have been had, and measures applied accordingly.

If a woman tells her established partner she is using reliable birth control when that is not the case, and a pregnancy occurs, I can't really see my way past her to apportion blame.

PopularNamesInclude · 16/02/2015 10:36

What good would blaming her do? There will still be a baby, she will still be able to take the man to the CSA, and he will still be an arse if he denies his child and fails to support dc financially and emotionally.

If a man does not want a baby, he should wear a condom. If he is in a longterm relationship and does not want a baby ever, he might want a vasectomy. And if he suspects his partner might lie about something that fundamental, he should run a mile!

gamora · 16/02/2015 10:37

There was a big campaign in Ireland years ago aimed at students with some terrible tagline like 'it takes two' trying to convince people to use two methods of contraception because one often fails especially if you're both students and drunk half the time

I have almost always in longterm relationships used two forms - pill and condoms - for at least a year or so, then had a serious conversation. I've had one guy try and get out of using a condom and I openly laughed at him, so he didn't protest for two long. I really think it needs to be made more of a norm that condoms are used, as well as other contraception, until a relationship is very established, and people have an open conversation about what they would do in the case of a pregnancy.

With one DP, I made it clear that I would take the pill, that if we had a reason to suspect a contraceptive failure of any kind I would take the morning after pill, but that there was no way I would have an abortion if I got pregnant in a consensual loving relationship, even if that choice ended the relationship. (This was based on wanting children long term, having reason to believe I may have struggle conceiving, and having a weird concept of testing fate, not any religious beliefs or anything) At the time, he was adamant he really, really didn't want a child for a number of years so we used condoms as well as the pill, for five years.

Five years! No complaint, no issue with it. Every. Single. Time. So people who say, oh, you can't expect men to wear condoms long term - its crap. Honestly. Its another areas where you find out really early if someone is up for an equal relationship or not IMHO, and its another area where there needs to be a real cultural shift in what's normal.

gamora · 16/02/2015 10:39

(Also to add: I do agree people who 'trap' or lie about being on the pill are pretty evil, and of course it cuts both ways like people pretending to use a condom. Its a violation on some level, and totally different to people assuming, or contraception failing, which are things you should factor in. The number of seemingly normal people who advise accidentally on purpose falling pregnant with a reluctant partner like its something normal terrifies me)

ChristyMooreRocks · 16/02/2015 10:40

Yes, of course it is his fault. He is in control of his fertility. He can use a condom. If he chooses not too, then a pregnancy results, he is legally responsible. Men can make a choice to be as safe as possible (failures happen, just like with the pill). They can also choose not to have sex.

So in Toxic's example above, it was her fault she got pregnant because she 'didn't take control of her fertility'? She should have just abstained instead?

BestZebbie · 16/02/2015 10:40

I agree with the men in the OP that

  1. If someone sabotages agreed contraception then they are the one to blame for a resulting pregnancy
  2. changing the agreed conditions for sex, without consent, is rape

I think that they may need reminding that sometimes even correctly taken contraception fails, however, and that using more methods is a good way of reducing that risk (also the pill doesn't protect against STDs etc etc). If the pill is used correctly and fails then I don't see that as sabotage/rape at all - I'd be a little concerned that to try to absolve themselves of fault defensively if that happened these men might be tempted to paint themselves as victim and woman as predator rather than both victims of probability.

PopularNamesInclude · 16/02/2015 10:49

Everyone who engages in consensual sex needs to take responsibility for themselves. Condoms have a significant failure rate. And again, what good does blaming one or the other do? A woman who is tricked by her partner saying he is using a condom, and then finds herself pregnant, still has a pregnancy to deal with. If not having a baby is very important to you, you absolutely need to use a method of birth control yourself.

merrymouse · 16/02/2015 11:04

Exactly popular. I think the number of pregnancies that result from women 'tricking' partners into sex without birth control is very small. However, if men think this is a genuine risk of sex, the answer is still, obviously, to use a condom or not have sex.

OnlyLovers · 16/02/2015 11:13

he will still be an arse if he denies his child and fails to support dc financially and emotionally.

I don't think he'd be an 'arse' for not wanting to support a child he did not agree to conceiving. If I were a man and had been lied to and then presented with a payment demand for child support I'd be pretty pissed off.

However, I'm not really enjoying this discussion because it seems to be adding to the narrative/belief that women are all out to 'trap' men. I'm sure cases where someone lies about being on the pill are very very rare.

ToxicTULp · 16/02/2015 11:21

Someone did in fact say that on my thread christy but people responded to that saying that I had, in fact, "taken control of my fertility" when I had had a discussion with DH about contraception in which we both decided that I would not go on the pill and that we would use condoms.

It has to go two ways. There would be life changing consequences for either partner.

BrendaBlackhead · 16/02/2015 11:21

I sometimes wonder how more celebrities aren't caught out. I mean there's Boris Becker in the broom cupboard, and Jude Lawe (who gave some woman a false mobile number... as if she couldn't track him down!) so do famous men wear three condoms plus a wellington boot on top for good measure?!

Obviously most women aren't out to trap a run-of-the-mill bloke, but I'm thinking footballers and their ilk must attract a fair few women who see them as a meal ticket if they can get pregnant.

I'm not condoning (or even condoming...) sleeping around but I guess rock stars etc will be rock stars.

HouseBaelish · 16/02/2015 11:32

I suppose that I use two methods of contraception - one being the mini pill and one being the fact I'm infertile Grin

With a one night stand it would absolutely be the case that no condom = no sex. I have had two longer term partners though and we decided together to use either no contraception at all (with husband at the time, 3 years and never got pregnant) and new partner - I'm on the mini-pill.

We have discussed failure in a calm and adult manner and have accepted the risks work for us

Babycham1979 · 16/02/2015 14:04

I don't know about rape, but it's certainly analogous to assault.

It does raise questions about the current, creeping definitions of rape though. This is the inevitable consequence of increasingly byzantine logic when it comes to feminist positions on bodily integrity. From abortion to rape to contraception, it's unfortunately becoming an increasingly illogical and hypocritical mess.

Goldmandra · 16/02/2015 20:05

I don't think he'd be an 'arse' for not wanting to support a child he did not agree to conceiving. If I were a man and had been lied to and then presented with a payment demand for child support I'd be pretty pissed off.

No contraception is 100% guaranteed. Therefore, if you have sex, you knowingly take the risk of creating a child. If a pregnancy is the result, you have a responsibility to the child.

You can be pissed off all you like but you took the risk and you take some of the financial responsibility.