to ask if you're pissed off with the Baby Boomers?

[DamFineBeaver]

Because people who are currently young-ish adults (MN's main demographic?), and younger, will be paying for the lavish lifestyle they've enjoyed?
The money borrowed for their nice big pensions will be paid back by us and our children.

Does this mean they shouldn't spend so much time in Tenerife?

If no one ever made generalisations most discussion would be pretty difficult.

The facts remain that the generation after the boomers will be the first to have a lower standard of living. Given that the boomers were, broadly, the people governing, voting and forming opinion while the causes of this we're being brought about, it would not seem unreasonable to lay some blame at their door, collectively.

Personally, I can also very very clearly see that the lifestyles (two kids in private school, sahm) houses, very long and comfortable retirements etc of the parents of my peers from school are mostly utterly impossible now with the same jobs. Clearly there are also less affluent boomers with a different experience, but that doesn't change this.

I also clearly see boomers valuing their free time, vacations etc a lot more than people of my age (30s) and a lot more than their parents. A lot of bodies are actually experiencing a volunteering problem because boomers are less willing to give their time in retirement than previously. I see this first hand.

Nor does it change the fact that the boomers seem to have an uncanny knack of arranging social structures to suit them as they go through life- suddenly we have care home fees reform and boomers working as long as they want while the young can't get jobs and have to pay for uni. Obviously the govt is implementing but collectively the boomers are driving it. To suggest otherwise is naive.

The reason the retirement age was abolished was because there are not enough young people to pay for retirement of the old. It was not some self indulgence of the old granting themselves rights to wait until 70 for the state pension. In fact people lose their jobs younger than that but will have to wait until they are nearly 70 instead of 60 for a state pension. Not that many employers search out women aged 60 when advertising jobs.

Also my father worked almost until he died at nearly 80 full time. His father left school at 12. I don't think this wonderful nirvana when older people had it so good really existed for most. I certainly remember my father talking about his father's dire times in the 1930s recession, people had no shoes, not enough food. WWI was hardly a bundle of fun either and the 50s were pretty awful. The 70s were 3 day weeks, 60% inflation, and early 80s a generation of graduates never found work due to massive unemployment. I think we always have booms and busts and like the cycles of the moon and indeed of women markets and finances just move like that - up and down. If it's down now it will be up soon. Across anyone's 80 years of life there will be hard and easy parts.

It's just wrong to suggest that bbs were voting and forming opinion when Thatcher came to power. Some of them were still too young to vote in 1979. The people in the majority then and who voted her in, were the middle aged and older, those who were born from about 1900 onwards. In those days a lot of bbs were very left wing (and some still are)

Margaret, (post at 18.45) I work in the charity sector, so get paid half of what I could expect in the public sector, plus no pension. I still believe your husband was on a very good deal.Also I expect he was earning that salary 20 years ago when I was on £17k.

jilly if your father died at 80 he wasn't a baby boomer. My father is one of the oldest bbs (born in 46) and didn't have to do national service or dodge bombs.

The 30s and war time were incredibly tough yes, but by definition the bbs weren't born.

Kvetch I was also struggling a bit with the figures Margaret's pulling out of her arse putting out there. As her DH is now dead and was retired for "only" 14 years, presumably the £50k a year was earned at least 14 years ago.

I suspect there's more than one goady fucker on the thread...

We BBs have DCs who are the young, we see them doing well and comfortably off with a much more exciting life than we had, uni, travelling, year out etc - so you can complain all you want but it's just not what we see.

The big problem will be care of the elderly in decades to come, if it hasn't started already and it will be as bad for Bbs as anyone else, possibly worse as there will be more of us.

Who knows what pensions will be in 30 years time, it's a bit daft to complain already.

Don't speak for all BBs Moniker-the young people I see are struggling with employment and housing issues.
Again its impossible to generalise-some may be living the high life.

OP-you say there are implications for how BBs should behave now.
Well I for one will be trying to vote this government out-I will not be bribed by pensioner bonds.
You're expecting a lot of us though.
If the govt which is not mainly comprised of BBs keeps handing pensioners things on a plate(like the pensioner bonds) it almost flies in the face of human nature for pensioners not to take advantage of it. Especially seeing that since the 1980s there has apparently been "no such thing as society".

National Service continued to 31st December 1960 and the last National Servicemen left the Armed Forces in May 1963.

Only when they come out with gems about using winter fuel payments to go on cruises, put all their good fortune down to hard work, vote for parties Tories who are happy to shaft the rest of us for short term political gain. Other than that they are alright really

I'd like to see the age winter fuel payment is made raised to at least 70. But I hardly think £200 is enough to go on a cruise even a budget one.

... and boomers working as long as they want...

Eh? Look I do have sympathy for some points on this thread and I've already said so. But the idea that we colluded with the government to raise our own pensions ages....

Do behave .

and boomers working as long as they want while the young can't get jobs and have to pay for uni. Obviously the govt is implementing but collectively the boomers are driving it. To suggest otherwise is naïve

Are you serious? Do you think I actually WANT to work for 51 years before I get my state pension which is what I will do ,started work at age 15 and will not get my pension until I am 66.

We cant win can we? Retire at a sensible age stop paying NI and we are accused of taking out more than we put in, work longer pay in longer and we are stealing jobs from young people.

Bit silly to be pissed off with a whole generation who had very little control over what was happening in the world at that time.

Yes, they might have bought a £300k house for £47k, but its all relative isn't it? What the problem is, is that wages haven't kept up with house prices.

I'm not entirely sure who the blame lies with for this but for the "babycrunchers" i.e those who were coming of working age just as the credit crunch hit, seems a bit odd to me that my first full time job (for which I was 1 out of 389 applicants and required college education) netted me I think £870odd pcm when the cheapest flat to rent in the same area was £600pcm.

Oh but thats fine, don't complain because we will give you housing benefit so you can afford to pay an extortionate amount of money for the most basic of human essentials, which will go straight into the pockets of the professional buy to let landlord.

Do you know why house prices are so high in relation to wages? Because the demand exceeds the supply. Do you know why the demand exceeds the supply? Because those at the top have far too much wealth to lose.

I don't see how any of that is the fault of the baby boomers.

I'm from a really working class area so its all Labour Labour Labour because thats who dad voted for and they're all about the working man. Well I was just rolling up to primary school when they got into power so wasn't all that interested in politics age 5, but from what I can see things started going to shit around about the time where they decided to chuck money at you for things you should be able to afford working in a 9-5 FT job.

If swathes of people who work full time can't afford basic essentials without housing benefit and tax credits then what does that say about the employers in this country who are making a profit.

So I do lay blame for the way things are these days but its certainly not at the door of the baby boomers.

There is ageism here! I've only been on a couple of cruises in my life and let me tell you 200 for many wouldn't even be 10% of the cost!

When you are retired and older you need the house warmer for longer. I use my wfa purely on heating, and it doesn't go very far at all.

Bloominmargaret. I live in a 110 year old 4 bed house and my fuel bills are only a grand a year. Winter fuel allowance would be a nice contribution. If it doesn't go very far I assume you must be heating a mansion paid for with your husband's salary which was clearly more than £50k for him to get £2600pcm pension, as it was capped at 50% of final salary or you must not be so drug as you like to pretend

Frugal, not drug

but then the top 5% in terms of wealth and the bbs are hardly completely separate groups.

To blame individual bbs for the situation is clearly mad, I know, but there are possible implications for how bbs should behave now.

So what should we do? Do tell me how to behave. I'll try really hard not to feel patronised.

Margaret's figures do not stack up. At all.