to be fed up of living in a deprived neighbourhood?

[fluffymouse]

We moved neighbourhoods in London to up size. Quite simply we could only afford a place big enough for us as a family in London in a dodgy neighbourhood. By any conventional marker the area is very deprived. It has a rather notorious reputation too, and has meant some people have been reluctant to visit us.

I have tried being positive about the area (it is on the up, like all areas of London that are not already up!). I am starting to think it would be nice to just move out to a nice village now.

Pros of our area:
Good community feel
Crime rate acceptable by London standards
Feels safe for the most part
Diverse neighbourhood - good ethnic foods

Cons:
Drug dealing neighbours who have been verbally abusive and threatening
Antisocial behaviour issues
Very few of the parents at dd's preschool speak English - limiting opportunities for play dates
Local schools - most do well considering, but children starting with attainment well below average, high turnover of pupils, and lots of pupils at early stage of English language acquisition
Very poor provision for children despite there being lots of children in the area - put simply no one bothers to provide as it wouldn't be taken up for the most part. No ballet, gym etc. Even the children centres offer very little.

WIBU to move us all out to a beautiful village up north where we can get a 4 bed house for the price of a bedsit here?

You could buy a nice house in Gloucestershire, Stroud is a great place to live and unles you wanted a cute period property you could get a 4 bed detached for 300k and be on a main train line back to London for nostalgic trips.

Do you really need a four bed op. Could you not buy a three bed in a nicer part of London/ Essex for £300k ?

Andy I'd be surprised if London doesn't become a city state by the end of this century.

When I visit I feel like I'm in another country.

I remember coming back to the north west after a holiday in London and it seemed like a third world country. I'd never leave as my family and friends are all up here but I can see why people prefer London.

I don't want anything except somewhere to walk the dog and ride the horse. And a view to soothe my soul.

I live in London and I'm totally there with the bleating on about house prices.

I hate the way anyone who is less than very wealthy is being squeezed out.

It's been going on since Thatcher's selling off of council properties (one third of which are now owned by landlords), and has upped a few gears since the Coalition got in.

The housing situation here affects everyone - bleat away.

I love London

That's all I have to say.

I hate the way anyone who is less than very wealthy is being squeezed out.

A large chunk of Central London is still Housing Authority, so this is not precisely true. Gainfully employed 20/30-somethings are absolutely locked out, I agree.

What's Housing Authority?

There is still some Housing Association property in Central London, but hardly a 'large chunk' and even in those the rents have increased astronomically.

madmomma interested to hear your recommendation for Manchester. Do some nice areas there have a happy racial mix. We live in a lovely area of London with a very relaxed mix and lots of mixed race families (like us we are black Caribbean/white) and will have to move at some point to be able to upgrade to a house. Thanks, just looking for info on our future options.

I am glad I live where I do- 20 minutes from the heart of the capital- in a great upmarket area surrounded by native woodland. My 5 bedroomed house cost me £210K.

Bliss.

Scotland of course.

I live in one of the beatiful yorkshire dales villages, i drive 36 miles a day fir my "local" job my husband works in swindon. Lots and lots of weekly commute dads here

Goodbye, gainfully employed 20s/30s may be entitled to housing association houses as well in some circumstances?

Sure, I could have better said is that 20/30something professionals are locked out of London.

By Housing Authority I'm referring to housing trusts (quasi-governmental?) such as Octavia or Notting Hill.

There is still some Housing Association property in Central London, but hardly a 'large chunk' and even in those the rents have increased astronomically.

There is still a large chunk of HA in London, and those rents have not increased astronomically. That's why they have such long waiting lists.

In Brent/North London you can find classes where not much English is spoken at home.

I live in a deprived inner city community - have been here for 14 years.

Over time lots of m/c parents have fled the area for a respectable suburb nearby, usually citing 'better schools' as the reason, although actually our local schools are all rated 'good' or 'outstanding'.

Some folks just don't want to have to be witness to the deprivation which exists in the UK or to be part of mixed communities (and by mixed, I mean economically mixed, rather than just ethnically - I know people here are generally fine with brown people, as long as they're not poor and forrin). It's better not to have to look at it, and then you don't have to think about it much either. Leave poor people to their doin's.

I moved out of a deprived community not so I didn't have to witness deprivation but because when crimes were committed the police generally didn't want to know. I see bobbies on the beat (occasionally) where I live now - never saw one when I was growing up. They would crawl around in the panda car giving the trouble makers time to scarper.

I think you'll find that social housing rents have increased many fold over the last 10 years or so, whilst the number of properties available have decreased dramatically.

Strategically, LAs and HAs are increasing their rents to reflect 'market value'; is only because they can lawfully only increase present rents by a certain % each year that is slowing the rate of increase.

New tenants are signed up on much higher rent payments.

There are waiting lists for social housing because the properties are more secure (although there are few 'secure tenancies' issued these days), RSLs are generally better than some landlord you can never get hold of, and rent rises are constrained by housing law, not because they're some sort of cheap Utopia.

And lots of boroughs (Hackney, Newham for example) are knocking down huge numbers of social housing properties and replacing them with private developments.

If there was adequate social housing in London, house prices wouldn't have been driven up to such ridiculous levels and there wouldn't be thousands of families who LAs are obliged to house under Housing Law living in B & Bs and other shitty temporary accommodation.

A friend of mine works in the Housing Dept of a West London borough and, under the Housing Benefit caps, there is now no property in the borough that the HB rent will cover.

LAs are shipping families that they're obligated to house out to Birmingham, Kent and Newcastle. It's not just 20/30s 'professionals' who can't access accommodation in London.

I never claimed that there was adequate social housing in London (for starters, I have no idea how you would define "adequate"). I did a quick google search and it seems that LA rents are on average 1/3 of their private counterparts, i.e. well below market value.

www.londoncouncils.gov.uk/londonfacts/default.htm?category=10

The existing & new tenancies are on a points-based system which means that "middle class" professionals who are unable to afford London house prices will never qualify for social housing, whereas low-income people will occasionally qualify for social housing - i.e. all people who will qualify will be low-income. So London becomes a place for the rich, the pre-boom lucky, and the poor.

It's silly to suggest that people are so precious they can't cope with the sight of deprivation. When I flee (soon, I hope) I will be fleeing one dog attack, one stolen car, and neighbors 4 doors down openly dealing drugs (and their silly doorstep turf wars). And the dog poo, and the motorbikes that have been retooled so they can reliably wake everyone in the neighborhood. And so on.

Meme the whole of South Manchester LA is racially mixed and very cosmopolitan. Draw a line from centre taking in Hulme, Moss Side, Whalley Range, Fallowfield, Withington Chorlton, Didsbury (west central and east). There are micro pockets but generally all very mixed with good schools. Areas with bad reputations from 15-20 years ago are a far cry from what they were. Huge populations of uni academics from the two unis, and medics from all the hospitals as well as media types populate the lot. As well of course the more local and less transient populations

South Manchester also has every activity going and museums, theatres, sporting events. Everything London has at half the price

'Adequate' would mean that there wouldn't be homeless families living in temporary accommodation, for a very basic start.

HA rents are higher than LA rents, some considerably so.

Here's an extract from Circle's Rent Increase Statement for the coming year, containing the phrase "In 2011, the Government also introduced the Affordable Homes Programme allowing housing providers, like Circle Housing, to charge affordable rent for new lets and relets. Affordable rent is defined as at up to 80% of market rents. Affordable rents are not
governed by rent restructuring."

www.circle.org.uk/~/media/D773D0122407442CA14004CD3707054B.pdf?la=en

80% of a market rent is way above what most people can afford, and often what HB will cover.

And the 'low income' people who can access social housing will have a fixed term tenancy.

The housing situation in London affects everyone except the people who bought years ago and super-rich very badly indeed.

Christina, "Affordable Homes" is a completely separate animal - builders are induced to offer a percentage of their units at 80% of the market rent, which would not be "affordable" to low-income people.

Conversely, the existing (substantial) LA/HA stock (by HA I mean Octavia, Notting Hill trust and the like) will remain available to low-income people only. Some HA offer "Affordable Homes" under the scheme you describe but these are different from their charitable trust portfolios.

The housing situation in London affects everyone except the people who bought years ago and super-rich very badly indeed.

It affects everyone, yes, but in different ways. A person making 30K in 2015 is effectively locked out of Central London barring some unholy compromises. A low-income person or family meeting the HA/LA profile will fill vacancies in Zone 1 or 2 as they become available.