to think breastfeeding is not 'convenient'?

[SolasEile]

So I might be feeling a tad bitter because my 3 month old is in some crazy nursing strike phase and I'm frustrated from having spent months trying to make breastfeeding work only to have it all fall apart now, 3 months in... but... surely breast-feeding is a hell of a lot less convenient than formula feeding?

When I went to NCT classes the message was that breast-feeding is so easy and natural and convenient and while it might be a bit tough in the early weeks, once you and baby get used to it it's so convenient as you can just 'pop them on' the breast anywhere and no need for bottles or mixing up formula and so on.

I'm not finding that to be the case. My DS was formula fed after 8 weeks and I could feed him anywhere. I just brought sterilized bottles with me and readymade formula in cartons and managed to move country and fly longhaul with him at 3 months old.

Now with my DD, she is EBF, and feeding her is a gigantic pain in the arse. First of all, you have the issue of breastfeeding in public which I'm still not 100% confident doing. I have a nursing shawl and have tried to feed her a couple of times but I find it very hard as she is a messy feeder and we were using shields up until recently. Secondly I have a very fast letdown so she gets fussy at the breast and will currently only feed in one position (laid back) and usually feeds best when she has just woken from a nap. When she is tired she will not feed for love nor money and just screams the place down from frustration. This makes getting out of the house really really hard as I have to time her feeds so carefully.

At this stage I'm tempted to just pump and bottle feed because feeding my DS out and about with bottles was never an issue at all. I am starting to regret having made the effort to breastfeed. It just is a crap experience and so much work for no reward, as far as I can see. My DS was perfectly healthy whereas my DD has had a cold almost permanently since she was born. We do have some issues with feeding so I am seeing a lactation consultant this weekend to double check on latch and so on but to be honest I'm fed up to fuck with breastfeeding. It just seems like a big con where we are told it's best for baby and it's 'so convenient' and natural when really it is just a gigantic pain in the arse.

So AIBU? To be fed up with breastfeeding and not find it convenient or easy at all? Or am I just unlucky to have had issues with both my DS and DD?
/Awaits flaming from lactivist / NCT people.../

Cherrypi
It is increased risk from a low risk so you have to judge it yourself. My breastfed baby had chicken pox and my other one has a cold at the moment. I don't think it makes all breastfed babies super human. The scientific research is that there is an increased risk of health problems for people that are formula fed. This is not disproved by people that are healthy that have been formula fed

But it can only ever be an indication, a possible factor rather than a definitive factor as it's impossible to isolate the way an infant is fed from the rest of their environment.

My children are very healthy, big and strong, both are very bright (DC1 will be doing L6 SATs as they're "easy", DC2 is streets ahead of where DC1 was at the same age). But is that because of the way they were fed? (formula), genetics? having 2 university educated parents? having a mainly vegetarian diet? living in a safe, warm home where money is not an issue?

YANBU
I think if it was that convenient a lot more people would bf! Obviously the people that find it easy think it is convenient. But the fact that bf rates are so low in this countrywould suggest that the majority would agree with the op. I bf for 6 months and ff from then. Ff was a lot easier. Bf took a long time, was painful, took many appointments eg GP for constant mastitis, nipple shields, breast pump, expensive bras, couldn't leave baby for long... I don't think I was unlucky. I think the people without these issues are the lucky ones.

It is hardly much faff to put bottles in the dishwasher and then the microwave for 6 minutes of an evening. Dh makes up milk and it is stored in the fridge the night before - takes about the same time as brewing a pot of tea. I take one bottle with me (cool bag in warm weather) if I go out and have a spare carton for emergencies (sma can be bought in thousands of shops, petrol stations etc. There is no need to warm the bottle.

"I read somewhere once that breastfeeding starts out at (say) a 9/10 difficulty level, but usually drops down to more like 2/10 when both parties have got the hang of it, whereas ff starts at 5/10 and stays there."

Yes, I think that's it - it's like all the work is front-loaded. I found BF a piece of piss both times but still found the first few weeks pretty relentless, and it only became really easy/convenient at around 3 months. After that it was basically hassle-free (DS2 is now two and it's just a useful toddler-taming tool - I've easily gone away for a long weekend without feeding him). I suspect a lot of people who "never got on with breastfeeding"/think "it's really inconvenient" give up during the more, er, challenging bit and never get to the easy part where your supply is settled, you can just stuff a baby up your jumper when they need it, and they can go for a couple of hours between feeds. Also suspect that wouldn't happen so often if BF was more common and people had frequently seen their mothers/sisters/aunts/neighbours/friends going through the mad growth-spurty bits and come out the other side.

And yes, as others have said YANBU at all to be finding it difficult yourself, but YABU to assume that that's generally the case.

YABU as you are making a sweeping generalisation based on your own experience.

I found breastfeeding very convenient. I could feed dd1 anywhere, and continued until she self weaned at over a year old.

Good on you for using ready made formula when out, the majority of formula feeding parents I know go against guidelines and either premix bottles, or mix bottles when out with cold water, both of which are very dangerous.

"But the fact that bf rates are so low in this countrywould suggest that the majority would agree with the op."

I don't think the reason why BF rates are low is that women in the UK (and Ireland, where BF rates are even lower) have just somehow realized THE TRUTH: BREASTFEEDING IS INCONVENIENT - if that's the case, why do women in other countries not, apparently, find it inconvenient, or have so many women who can't breastfeed? Presumably they don't have differently functioning boobs in Norway...

I breast fed for 11 months there no way I couldn't be bothered with all the bottles.and paying for tins!!! I found bf really convenient .

The thing is, it would seem the op is in the majority, not the minority, if you look at bf statistics.
Although something like (don't quote me) 80% of mums start ebf-ing at birth, that drops to less than 20% by 3 months old.
That seems to suggest that more women than not do not find bf-ing convenient for whatever reason.

I count myself as very lucky that I have found it relatively easy compared to some, and have been able to continue.

I was convinced that I wouldn't be able to, mainly because of all the horror stories I have heard from people before DS was born. This is why we shouldn't scaremonger and tell horror stories, as it may put others off before they have even started.

However, for those who can bf and haven't had a lot of the issues, then it is hugely more convenient than formula feeding. But I do think we are in the minority sadly.

cherrypi I'm fully aware of the supposed health benefits of breastfeeding thank you, what i disagree with is the word "risk" and the term "risks of formula feeding". It implies that a mother is being neglectful.

The statical differences between the two are very slight, in the real world it does not make much difference to your baby's health whether you breast feed or formula feed your baby.

But when people start saying things like "risks of formula feeding" it puts an unreasonable amount of pressure on women and it causes great guilt for a lot of women.

I couldn't breastfeed DS, he was tongue tied, i have rubbish nipples, he would not and could not latch on. I had numerous midwives and breastfeeding workers trying their best but without success.
I felt so much guilt, felt like a useless mother and I think that guilt was a contributing factor in me developing PND.

IMO there are risks to people throwing around words like "risks of formula feeding".

I just think there's too much pressure put on women, it's not for everybody, if it works out then great, there's great health benefits for mum and baby, but if it doesn't work out then don't worry baby will be just as perfect... That's the message that should be going out to new mums.

"However, for those who can bf and haven't had a lot of the issues, then it is hugely more convenient than formula feeding. But I do think we are in the minority sadly."

Again, though, how does this explain countries where BF rates are really high, like in Scandinavia? I really don't think the reason why BF rates are so low here is purely because "for the majority of women, it's just too difficult". I suspect it's almost the other way round, because BF rates are so low it makes it more inconvenient: women are self-conscious about feeding in public because so few people do it, women don't get peer support when they have problems/haven't seen family members BF, etc. etc.

YANBU.

DD2 is 25 weeks and ebf. The latch was great from the get go but I did have oversupply and forceful letdown. The worst of that has now passed, thankfully.

I can only find 2 positives so far compared to ff for DD1. My change bag is lighter and my periods have not yet returned.

I find the hoicking up of my many layers of winter clothes a PITA. I thought I was baby led demanding feeding with DD1 but it's nothing compared to the baby led feeding with DD1. Sometimes she just wants a quick 30 sec. All that faffing with bras and layers for 30 sec!

The sensory overload is immense. It's not just the mouth action but hands clawing at you and feet kicking you. And, the hours of feeding, even now at 5 months! Dear God, an evening feed lying down in bed can take 1 hour! I feel so agitated when I bf. And, I still need both hands so find it hard to do something else to distract me from the agitation.

I think folks are maybe suited to bf or not. I don't think I am. I am hoping the health benefits translate for us. Praying they do. I am hoping to set an example for both of my girls that bf is normal and natural.

I guess living in an ff culture from an ff family means it isn't normal or natural for me.

These past 6 months I have found bf to be one of the greatest challenges of my life. Emotionally, physically and spiritually. I hope I find the next 6 easier.

I certainly wouldn't have gotten this far without online support here and real life support from the LLL.

I just hope it is worth it and DD2 avoids the food allergies that DD1 has.

Leedy - in communities where breastfeeding is more common, so is the understanding of the downsides, so it's sort of expected and you know what you're signing up for - so the focus on the upsides are more likely to stick.

It's not as convenient to breast feed for the way most families live, so if you want woman to do something that's making their lives harder with a new baby, then the upsides do need to be shouted much more loudly, and find ways to minimise the downsides, not just pretend it would be far worse to be doing formula feeding, when in this country, you're likely to see FFing mothers and realise that's bobbins.

(I always found it unhelpful that so many people who are pro-breastfeeding are also anti-routine, when I was bfing, having a routine meant that at least i could easily schedule a couple of hours away from my baby without having to worry about him needing to be fed, being routine free still after the first couple of months means that you really aren't able to get away without pumping just in case, which again, is extra faff compared to just putting out a sterlised bottle and a carton of formula before heading out of the door. There are ways to minimise the downsides of breast feeding, just pretending they don't exisit helps noone.)

I find bf to be really convenient and easy I don't even get out of bed to feed my 4mo

Argh, stargirl, sorry you're finding it such a pain atm - it does sound like you have a particularly demanding little one. Some things that might help - do you have a good feeding cushion or similar? Or get some more advice on holding baby? You're just saying that you need both hands, which I never did, was always able to just have one hand near the head area and hold a Kindle/phone/TV remote/biscuit/poke at laptop keyboard with the other, I think I'd have gone spare if I couldn't read when feeding (have probably never been so involved in social media as when I had small babies). Also I invested in a couple of Boob feeding tops which meant I wasn't hoiking up as much fabric for on the go winter feeds, they have a sort of flap at the top which is really handy.

I said I started to find things really easy at 3 months, but I think it got easier again at 6 months, hope that's the case for you too.

"Leedy - in communities where breastfeeding is more common, so is the understanding of the downsides, so it's sort of expected and you know what you're signing up for - so the focus on the upsides are more likely to stick. "

Yes, that totally makes sense - as I said above, if you've already seen your mum or friend or whatever go through cluster feeding and come out the other side you'd know that a)it happens, b)it's normal, c)it stops eventually.

I found BF to be very convenient...but I am aware this isn't everyone's experience.

I think the NCT (on average) do make it sound easier than it is, but my specific class was very good at stating the main problems, pitfalls and in giving people a realistic expectation (like actually warning us about how painful it might be to begin with).

I think if all NCT classes were as balanced more people would carry on BFing for longer, as they wouldn't feel they were 'doing it wrong' so often.

fluffymouse it's not 'very dangerous' premix ing bottles it's just that the guidance has changed recently. When I had dc1 I was told (by hv) to make up bottles once a day. No one knew any different.

Then I ebf for 10 weeks and mixed fed after that, alternating bf & ff. I was treated like a bf success story at our MW run postnatal group. Now women are made to feel like failures if they done ebf til 6 months. I think that's an unrealistic target for many women.

My hv attributed my pnd to me blaming myself for not bf longer when there was no need for me to feel guilty.

I used to be such a strong bf advocate but now I look at the evidence and it's very difficult to seperate bf benefits from class/income factors.

It also polarises the male/female parenting roles in the early months, when life long habits are made. I really don't see how you can have equal parenting when one parent is ebf.

"It's not as convenient to breast feed for the way most families live"

Is that really the case for most families, though? In what way does it not fit in with "how most families live"? I did find the first few weeks fairly full-on but after that I think I genuinely would have found it less convenient to bottle feed. Also did spend a lot of time feeding the baby in the early days, but I was the one on maternity leave, it wasn't like during the day time there was anyone I could share the feeds with.

Leedy, she is THE most contented baby in the world (nothing like DD1 ). I guess it's comfort feeding in the evening. I am using my hands to fend off her limbs as I just find it so overwhelming in terms of all the touching - mouth, hands, feet. DD1 did flail around when feeding too but all her flailing was directed at the bottle.

I had this thought that bf mums look so contented when they feed and I thought I would feel like too. But, I feel like ants are crawling all over my skin and I want to jump up and run away!

The oversupply/letdown has meant DD2 is happier feeding lying down and, indeed, would only feed lying down for 2/3 months in the beginning. I think I felt forced to do something with my body I didn't want to which added to my agitation. I wanted to sit downstairs in a chair and watch TV but I was stuck in my bed day and night. Trapped.

It is better but it's nothing like I ever imagined it to be. Here's to the next 6 months!

mary I am pretty sure it is the babies, not the parents, who are anti-routine....

"I really don't see how you can have equal parenting when one parent is ebf."

Really? We have very equal parenting in our house (I think) - in the early days when the boys were EBF I obviously did all the feeding but DP did lots of cuddling/changing/bathing/walking cranky baby around in a sling. Now they're 5 and 2 (the 2 year old still has morning and evening BF) we pretty much evenly share things like school/nursery runs, doctor trips, baths, dressing, etc. and both boys are very bonded to their dad.

I don't disagree that there are downsides to BF but I think it's pretty dodgy to suggest that it promotes unequal parenting, or that women really should FF/mixed feed if they don't want to end up being responsible for all the childcare. I'm sure it's something that gatekeeping mothers could use as part of a whole "the baby is my responsibility" thing, but it doesn't automatically follow at all.

Leedy - I think we are arguing the samepoint from different angles!

The other issue here is both have faff, but they are different types of faff and some people will find different types of faff easier or harder to deal with.

In our society, we expect mothers to carry round big changing bags, hung off buggies so not needing to carry the weight, so throwing bottles in that is not much extra effort. A lot of families do hand DCs over to grandparents for the night early on, we expect nights out to not have a baby in a car seat/buggy in the corner, we expect children to be in a routine, sleeping through from a couple of months and for Dads to do some night wakings from an early age or to have children on their own. All of that means that BFing seems more of a faff than it does in other countries where it's more normal for a baby to be attached to their mother for the first 6 months at least.

We're all geared up in this country for a type of parenthood that works best with formula. And it's hard to get round that, particularly if the message coming loud and clear from pro-breastfeeding people like hte NCT is "there is no problem" - making mums who are struggling think that it's just them that can't do it.

My experience was that BF was put forward as the natural solution with FF presented as a major faff. As PP have said FF was not the major faff once we got into the swing of sterilising and making up feeds ahead of time.

Also, I went back to work full time very quickly after each DC (6 weeks, 3 months & 4 weeks respectively). No way would I have been able to fit in negotiating the early weeks of BF with a full time job.

With DC3 I left her with DH when I went back to work so he was doing the feeding - now that was convenient!

FF meant that we shared the night feeds with one night on and one night off. Again, not possible with BF.

It also polarises the male/female parenting roles in the early months, when life long habits are made. I really don't see how you can have equal parenting when one parent is ebf.

Pretty easily in my experience? Although I suppose it depends how you define 'equal'. We weren't each doing 50% of each task, of course, but that didn't mean DH wasn't doing a good deal of all the baby stuff that didn't involve feeding right from the start - changing, bathing, cuddling, re-swaddling her and rocking her to sleep after nighttime changes, pacing up and down with her in the sling for the endless evening hours when she just wouldn't settle, etc. etc. Also doing the laundry and cooking and cleaning while I sat on the sofa watching the baby.

It wasn't until after I started getting out and about with her that I realised how many people believed that bfing would mean her dad was less involved, and in the very early days it made me feel quite sad after one baby group where someone said she was glad she ffed because it meant her DH could be a really hands-on dad - oh no, I'm depriving my baby of a close relationship with her dad! (To be fair I don't think that was at all what she was implying, I was just a neurotic bundle of nerves for the first couple of months anyway.)

I did think the whole "it's easier if they're ff because someone else can feed the baby" thing, which approximately 827 people told me, was mostly bollocks in my experience though. I was the one at home all day on mat leave - who else was going to feed her, exactly, my fleet of household staff?

Leedy - equal parenting, see for a lot of people, that means equal time away from the children and equal amount of time as the main care giver. DH had 2 weekends away when DC1 was under 5 months for a stag do and a rugby weekend away. Realistically, while I could have a few hours off between feeds, a whole weekend away would have been impossible (even if I could pump that much, not all babies are that keen on bottles when they are used to boobs just being there). DH would have got up at 3am every other night if I'd asked him, but it was rather pointless if DC just wanted feeding and mine were the only working nipples...

Again, I didn't mind signing up for not having as much freedom post DCs as DH (and did get spectaularly smashed with my friends once i'd stopped), but for a lot of couples, it can cause resentment and/or lead to a view that the children are the woman's job...

I did nowhere near equal parenting in the first 6 months...I did the BF and my DH did EVERYTHING else. He was the one that couldn't go anywhere without the baby, while I quite often bunked off between feeds/in the evenings.

Most of this was due to PND...we would have shared more equally if I had been able to cope with DD on my own - which I definitely couldn't.