Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To go over the teachers head?

154 replies

Bananaapplegrape · 04/02/2015 20:51

Right bit of a backstory (sorry!) DD is 11, year 6 of primary school, never been in trouble, always had brilliant school report, in top sets blah blah.. She's targeted for a 5A in maths and a 5B for literacy in the sats...

Today she came out of school hysterical (to the point where she was brought out by a TA who had found her crying in the toilets), they had a 'long write' today.. It had been marked and DD got a 5c.. Her teacher ripped the work out of her book and she is to redo it tomorrow (during break!!!!)

I went to talk to the teacher, fully expecting her to explain that DD has completely misunderstood but no.. Teacher stated that DD has potential to do better, so she has too.. I asked had DD been messing around? Nope.. Chatting? Nope.. Behaviour was absolutley fine.. But she KNOWS she could have done it better.

I completely and utterly disagree with this and told teacher so DD loves school and always works hard.. She is not reacting well to the stupid amounts of pressure that these fucking sats are placing on her (despite me telling her repeatedly that it's the school being tested not her) and today has just completed fucked up her confidence...

I've tried talking to the teacher and she is Adament its a legitimate learning approach bollocks so would IBU to go to the head?

I should add - If DD was messing around them I would have absolutley no objection to the loss of break (though still wouldn't be overly impressed by the book ripping) but to do that to a child who is already achieving over average? It just feels really wrong that she's being punished for not over achieving...

OP posts:
Altinkum · 04/02/2015 21:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Janethegirl · 04/02/2015 21:33

Altinkum, my approach exactly Grin

CalleighDoodle · 04/02/2015 21:33

I dont understand all this 'it is grading the school not the child' business??? It is grading the child. And it is significant data. Sats results are used to target set year 11 grades.

balletgirlmum · 04/02/2015 21:36

No they are not calleigh. High schools retest the children themselves on entry as they know that SATS can be very skewed. Targets are based on these & constantly re evaluated.

My dd didn't do SATS & is managing just fine.

Feenie · 04/02/2015 21:36

It's 100% true, Jane - those are the statutory regulations. They changed 3 years ago, and children may be asked to sit the tests up to 5 days after the test period.

Tinks42 · 04/02/2015 21:37

Well I did say what the teacher did was totally wrong.

I also get that the pages were torn from the OP's childs book, I also got that the childs grades were not what she expected.

Still, I would be worried about the OP's daughter's reaction to all of this. To collapse in a toilet etc. is not good.

Maybe the OP could see how she can take some pressure off?

Feenie · 04/02/2015 21:38

HarperCollins, regardless of the secondary school's own tests, schools are still set targets from the KS2 test results and have to be answerable.

Tinks42 · 04/02/2015 21:39

What I am trying to say is if I were the OP, I'd be far more worried about my childs reaction.

Feenie · 04/02/2015 21:39

That post was to balletgirlmum - what a bizarre auto-correct!

Hulababy · 04/02/2015 21:40

Not in al schools CalleighDoodle, infact ime not in mny at all.
Most secondaries do their own on entry assessments in the first term in Y7. Many also do some form of CATs and use those for target setting.

My DD and her friends have done no SATs yet they all have targets set at their respective secondary schools. All did assessments at the start of Y7.

Janethegirl · 04/02/2015 21:41

Ok Feenie, so nowadays my dcs would need to be ill for a fortnight or I would insist they were excluded from the SATS exams

pieceofpurplesky · 04/02/2015 21:42

Schools still set using KS2 SATs results. The data used to calculate targets uses this ... And a wealth if other data. Without it data can be skewed for example I have a child predicted a B in English who won't get one ... There are no SATs marks for literacy and his targets were skewed by his maths abilities.

Original poster
Bananaapplegrape · 04/02/2015 21:42

But how is making my DD so unhappy going to change the teachers stress levels? If that was the objective then maybe we should just keep all the kids in school till sats are done with.. Then they can work them 24/7 Hmm

Teachers are under stupid amounts of stress as year 6 or any year really teachers.. But to siphon that stress onto a child is unacceptabkr

OP posts:
Feenie · 04/02/2015 21:42

Hulababy, for children who sat ks2 tests the targets are set externally in all state schools.

Caronaim · 04/02/2015 21:43

well, what did the teacher tear it out OF. Is it a record book or similar, where every single piece of work has to be triple marked in multicoloured ink? If so, why would she do that if the piece of work is going to be redone?

You might be surprised how much work actually goes into the bin because anything on the premises when ofsted come in has to be fully marked according to the school policy, so if you are not going to do that, for what ever reason, then you destroy the evidence.

This is why so much work these days is done on mini white boards where it can all be permanently erased.

Removing the work from the book is no different to erasing it from a mini white board.

Your DD does seem to have had an OTT reaction. It may well be that she has been starting to coast, and this has pulled her up short.

Tinks42 · 04/02/2015 21:43

OP. of course you go to the head.

Your child is going to come across nasty teachers, low grades etc.

My advice would be to spend some time helping her to cope better with this.

Hulababy · 04/02/2015 21:44

"To collapse in a toilet etc. is not good."

You're right it isn't good. That a teacher can cause a child to be so upset is definitely not good. Although I am not sure the child did collapse in the toilets - the OP states she was crying in the toilet. She was crying hysterically in the OP - and a TA brought her outside. But not collapsed.

regardless- that a teacher has made a well behaved and usually non overly-emotional child so upset is awful. The teacher needs taking to task over this and should be asked to apologise to the child and admit she was wrong.

Feenie · 04/02/2015 21:46

You can't insist that. For a fortnight's illness which included SAT tests and a parent who had let it be known she was pissed off, I daresay you would be looking at providing a doctor's note or being referred to an attendance officer or even being prosecuted.

Hulababy · 04/02/2015 21:46

Feenie - but these external ones mean nothing to the children ime. Many aren't even told them. The only ones they use - the children dd knows anyway (state and independent) - are the school ones, based on the y7 tests.

madwomanbackintheattic · 04/02/2015 21:47

Hulababy, I read it differently.

The teacher ripped the original work out with the expectation that the dd would redo the work to a higher level. In the event that the dd then under performs in the 'real' SATs, then this work can be used by the grading team as evidence that the dd should be a higher grade.

As she is to use the original work as a basis, and has presumably been told the improvements required to get the higher grade, all that is essentially going on is the teacher is making sure both the dd (and her underperforming friends) and indeed the teacher herself, get their predicted grades at the end of the year.

Sure, it's ethically suspect. But it's no different to the stuff happening at GCSE where kids re-do coursework until it is of the required standard.

the teacher may have been a little freaky in her reaction, but I'm guessing her desire was to create the evidence the dd requires in case of future issues, which she obv thinks is worthwhile for the dd in the long run. (And for the school to prove it has kids working at 5c)

Original poster
Bananaapplegrape · 04/02/2015 21:49

Right.. Just to catch up.

Thinks.. Can you please not misquote me.. At no point did I say my DD 'collapsed' in a toilet or elsewhere.. I said she was found by a TA in the toilet (where she had gone after the bell went and after the incident) crying hysterically (she was doing the hiccup bit and unable to talk properly) - the TA saw her and brought her out to me to talk to her... She did not collapse Hmm

I don't see her reaction as OTT tbh.. I think you may have forgotten what it's like to be 11!!

As for why I asked if IWBU - because I was asking obviously.. Had everyone said 'oh this happens all the time' then I would have still disagreed but would maybe have reconsidered speaking to the head..

OP posts:
Feenie · 04/02/2015 21:49

But you know if a child is targeted to reach a certain grade and isn't likely to attain it, extra help and support will be given to ensure they do, or the school is accountable, hulababy.

Of course that makes a difference to an individual child.

Hulababy · 04/02/2015 21:50

Caronaim

I disagree. It does not all need to be fully deep marked at all. And a school's marking policy shouldn't state that every piece of work done should be deep marked every single time.

And why should the child redo the work - she sat and worked, completed the task, didn't mess about - it is a true reflection of that day's work. Therefore it should be marked and assessed.

FWIW we do not bin children's work and I have NEVER torn a sheet of work out of a child's class book, for any subject.

Original poster
Bananaapplegrape · 04/02/2015 21:53

The thing is she had already marked it.. Hence why it had the 5C... So she's actually marking it twice.. Which I don't understand why she didn't write in the book 'good work, can you please rewrite whatever sentences or even the whole piece using XYZ please.

DD would have been fine with that im sure..

OP posts:
Caronaim · 04/02/2015 21:53

hulababy, it depends, it might well have to be deep marked if it is in that particular book. Or it might ALL have to be.

As I said, a lot of work is destroyed, it is normal practice.